Brainstorming: Improving Xfce's Out-of-the-Box Experience

eriefisher · 2026-08-11 09:22:46

Personally I think your trying to convince the wrong crowd with your argument. I say build your app and submit it. It either gets accepted or not. If it does it will get used or not. The argument is getting old fast. No body is stopping you from building it. You obviously have strong opinions on how software should be built and your entitled to your opinion so build it and move on. Trying to change others use habits is not going to advance your position.

daffyduck · 2026-08-11 10:50:39

eriefisher wrote:

Personally I think your trying to convince the wrong crowd with your argument. I say build your app and submit it. It either gets accepted or not. If it does it will get used or not. The argument is getting old fast. No body is stopping you from building it. You obviously have strong opinions on how software should be built and your entitled to your opinion so build it and move on.

Fair point. I imagine you know better than I do which crowd I'm addressing and who I should actually be talking to.

But I think the proposal, descriptions, and specs are more important than the code. Especially for delicate, tricky things like a Welcome Wizard.

Also, I only got my GitLab account yesterday, so I couldn't submit anything before then. It's my first time using GitLab, so I need some time to get used to it. Anyway, my first job is to submit this proposal and the others I've mentioned on the forum, which might take a while.

I think the specs, clarifications, and rationales are the most important part. Then it doesn't matter if I implement it or someone else does.

Trying to change others use habits is not going to advance your position.

I'm not trying to change anyone's habits. I'm just explaining the reasoning and decisions and trying to find where the problems are. For example, one user didn't like the line "Let's get your new desktop environment set up." Maybe he's right and there's a better way to say it, but I don't have a better idea and he didn't suggest one.

Anyway, I'll get these proposals up on gitlab.xfce.org .

Added later 2 h 33 min 32 s:
Also, I'm always uncertain about names.
So, I'm accepting suggestions for:

xfce4-first-run   # The name of the executable file (I hate the term "binaries")

There is an existing project named

xfce4-welcome

Perhaps that name is better? I think it is slightly worse; I feel the name should somehow indicate that it is a GUI for initial DE setup, to be run just once.

Some other proposals:

xfce4-setup-wizard
xfce4-setup-guide
xfce4-init-gui
xfce4-first-setup

Also, what should the project be named? Here are some ideas:
- Welcome Wizard
- Settings Guide
- Guided Configuration
- Setup Guide
- Setup Assistant
- Quick Start Wizard

Anyway, I need a name for the project; I can't create the project without choosing a good name.

Added later 2 h 45 min 02 s:

Initial Setup --- xfce4-initial-setup
Setup Assistant --- xfce4-setup-assistant or xfce4-setup
First-Run Assistant --- xfce4-first-run
?

Added later 2 h 51 min 53 s:
There is already "xfce4-settings" and "xfce4-session", and both start with "xfce4-se"
Therefore, "xfce4-setup" is not good, because that would be the third one with the same prefix.

Added later 3 h 02 min 08 s:

My best idea so far:
First Setup Assistant --- xfce4-first-setup

Added later 3 h 08 min 40 s:

I think I got it:
XFCE Initial Setup Assistant --- xfce4-init-setup
What do you think ?

JmaCWQ · 2026-08-11 19:20:42

I think I got it:
XFCE Initial Setup Assistant --- xfce4-init-setup
What do you think ?

Perhaps you should research the Linux init process?
Naming it that would possibly cause confusion about what it actually is and does.

Last edited by JmaCWQ (2026-08-11 19:21:47)

daffyduck · 2026-08-11 23:48:58

JmaCWQ wrote:

Perhaps you should research the Linux init process?
Naming it that would possibly cause confusion about what it actually is and does.

Um... you mean: it looks like "init", which was traditionally the first process on Unix?

Then "git init" would also be bad for the same reason.

That there was, and still is to a degree, such a tradition, does not reserve the word "init" for other uses. "init" is such a generic shorthand for "initialization", that it is used virtually everywhere. It should not be assumed that it automatically refers just to PID 1.

Added later 03 min 20 s:
However, I don't shun from longer names. I like verbosity.
So, perhaps: xfce4-initialization-setup

Added later 07 min 34 s:
Or, even better:
XFCE Initial Setup Assistant --- xfce4-initial-setup

Added later 3 h 20 min 28 s:

I noticed another issue.
The "font DPI" option in XFCE/GTK only scales the fonts. Other GUI elements only scale if the text forces them to.

However, a "DPI" setting is expected to scale everything.

To scale the whole UI, WindowScalingFactor should be used. However, on X11 this only supports 1x or 2x, which is too limiting.

This means xfce4-initial-setup has to combine WindowScalingFactor and Xft.dpi to simulate a specific DPI value on X11. It won't look 100% consistent, but there's no other way on X11.

I think Wayland handles this better, but I haven't tried it yet.

Added later 3 h 26 min 54 s:

And, if anyone wants to know who's fault is it for that mess, its GTK.
Theoretically, GTK (3) could have allocated internal buffers for scaling, where the final buffer equal to window size is then submitted to X11 if fractional scaling is requested by the user. If necessary, that could be done synchronized with vsync, when direct-drawing (non-compositing) mode is enabled in the WM.

But no ... who needs proper HiDPI support on X11 ? Noone, apparently, says GTK.

Added later 3 h 52 min 24 s:
But there's more.

This creates user confusion, since "font DPI" and "DPI" aren't actually the same thing. Maybe the second one should be called "virtual DPI".

Since "DPI" is the dominant technical term instead of "virtual DPI", it might be better to express the difference in another way.

Expressing "DPI" (virtual DPI) in percentages would resolve the mixup. For example, 100% would be 96 DPI and 150% would be 144 DPI. It would still be "simulated" on X11 GTK using two separate factors, so it won't be perfectly consistent, but it would be much clearer that it is not the same as "font DPI".

Added later 4 h 15 min 37 s:
The next implication is that the command-line option shouldn't be named "dpi". Maybe "scaling" is better, although that's a bit vague. "scaling-factor" would be more precise. I think I'll settle on "scaling", or maybe "scale", "ui-scale", or "scale-ui"?

Added later 4 h 55 min:
Consequently, it's not 100% GTK's fault.
XFCE is also to blame in small part because the "Custom DPI setting" label isn't quite right.
I've proposed renaming it to "Custom font-DPI setting".

I've submitted the issue:
Rename "Custom DPI setting" label to clarify it affects fonts.
https://gitlab.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-sett … _items/650

Added later 6 h 49 min 41 s:

These are the best two names so far:
XFCE Initial Setup Assistant --- xfce4-initial-setup
XFCE Guided Setup Assistant --- xfce4-guided-setup

I think xfce4-guided-setup is the better one.

Last edited by daffyduck (2026-08-12 04:04:53)

JmaCWQ · 2026-08-12 07:24:29

daffyduck wrote:

Um... you mean: it looks like "init", which was traditionally the first process on Unix?
Then "git init" would also be bad for the same reason.
That there was, and still is to a degree, such a tradition, does not reserve the word "init" for other uses. "init" is such a generic shorthand for "initialization", that it is used virtually everywhere. It should not be assumed that it automatically refers just to PID 1......

You're wanting to create a startup/welcome app to attract new Xfce users, why name it something that could be confused for something else that already exits with the same or a similar name?

Last edited by JmaCWQ (2026-08-12 07:27:03)

daffyduck · 2026-08-12 07:29:51

JmaCWQ wrote:

You're wanting to create a startup/welcome app to attract new Xfce users, why name it something that could be confused for something else that already exits with the same or a similar name?

I'm just searching for the BEST name. Perhaps the best name is similar to something else, perhaps it isn't.

Anyway, xfce4-init-setup is not a likely name anymore, as I have those two better ideas already. The current favorite is: xfce4-guided-setup

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#51 2026-08-11 09:22:46

Re: Brainstorming: Improving Xfce's Out-of-the-Box Experience

#52 2026-08-11 10:50:39

Re: Brainstorming: Improving Xfce's Out-of-the-Box Experience

#53 2026-08-11 19:20:42

Re: Brainstorming: Improving Xfce's Out-of-the-Box Experience

#54 2026-08-11 23:48:58

Re: Brainstorming: Improving Xfce's Out-of-the-Box Experience

#55 2026-08-12 07:24:29

Re: Brainstorming: Improving Xfce's Out-of-the-Box Experience

#56 2026-08-12 07:29:51

Re: Brainstorming: Improving Xfce's Out-of-the-Box Experience

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