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#26 2023-09-10 09:00:45

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

Alright:

           PID: 1447 (xfce4-panel)
           UID: 1000 (a)
           GID: 1000 (a)
        Signal: 7 (BUS)
     Timestamp: [REDACTED] (2 days ago)
  Command Line: xfce4-panel
    Executable: /usr/bin/xfce4-panel
 Control Group: /user.slice/user-1000.slice/session-1.scope
          Unit: session-1.scope
         Slice: user-1000.slice
       Session: 1
     Owner UID: 1000 (a)
       Boot ID: [REDACTED]
    Machine ID: [REDACTED]
      Hostname: a
       Storage: /var/lib/systemd/coredump/core.xfce4-panel.1000.[REDACTED].1447.1694155974000000.zst (present)
  Size on Disk: 1.7M
       Message: Process 1447 (xfce4-panel) of user 1000 dumped core.
                
                Module libsystemd.so.0 from deb systemd-252.12-1~deb12u1.amd64
                Stack trace of thread 1447:
                #0  0x00007f8d3426759a n/a (libtasklist.so + 0x959a)
                #1  0x00007f8d367aabb8 g_closure_unref (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x15bb8)
                #2  0x00007f8d367c31be g_signal_handlers_destroy (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x2e1be)
                #3  0x00007f8d367af88d n/a (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x1a88d)
                #4  0x00007f8d367b1bb8 g_object_run_dispose (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x1cbb8)
                #5  0x00007f8d36e1e68d n/a (libgtk-3.so.0 + 0x21e68d)
                #6  0x00007f8d36d21227 n/a (libgtk-3.so.0 + 0x121227)
                #7  0x00007f8d367ab3b0 g_closure_invoke (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x163b0)
                #8  0x00007f8d367be124 n/a (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x29124)
                #9  0x00007f8d367c4bf5 g_signal_emit_valist (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x2fbf5)
                #10 0x00007f8d367c4dbf g_signal_emit (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x2fdbf)
                #11 0x00007f8d36f740dd n/a (libgtk-3.so.0 + 0x3740dd)
                #12 0x00007f8d367b1bb8 g_object_run_dispose (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x1cbb8)
                #13 0x00007f8d3426e1f8 n/a (libtasklist.so + 0x101f8)
                #14 0x00007f8d367ab5a9 n/a (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x165a9)
                #15 0x00007f8d367c4bbf g_signal_emit_valist (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x2fbbf)
                #16 0x00007f8d367c4dbf g_signal_emit (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x2fdbf)
                #17 0x00007f8d36e1fb43 n/a (libgtk-3.so.0 + 0x21fb43)
                #18 0x00007f8d36c90cb4 n/a (libgtk-3.so.0 + 0x90cb4)
                #19 0x00007f8d367ab5a9 n/a (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x165a9)
                #20 0x00007f8d367c405e g_signal_emit_valist (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x2f05e)
                #21 0x00007f8d367c4dbf g_signal_emit (libgobject-2.0.so.0 + 0x2fdbf)
                #22 0x00007f8d36f697d4 n/a (libgtk-3.so.0 + 0x3697d4)
                #23 0x00007f8d36e077de n/a (libgtk-3.so.0 + 0x2077de)
                #24 0x00007f8d36e09296 gtk_main_do_event (libgtk-3.so.0 + 0x209296)
                #25 0x00007f8d36b32815 n/a (libgdk-3.so.0 + 0x3c815)
                #26 0x00007f8d36b8c702 n/a (libgdk-3.so.0 + 0x96702)
                #27 0x00007f8d366b17a9 g_main_context_dispatch (libglib-2.0.so.0 + 0x547a9)
                #28 0x00007f8d366b1a38 n/a (libglib-2.0.so.0 + 0x54a38)
                #29 0x00007f8d366b1cef g_main_loop_run (libglib-2.0.so.0 + 0x54cef)
                #30 0x00007f8d36e08435 gtk_main (libgtk-3.so.0 + 0x208435)
                #31 0x000055a268a6b003 main (xfce4-panel + 0x15003)
                #32 0x00007f8d362821ca __libc_start_call_main (libc.so.6 + 0x271ca)
                #33 0x00007f8d36282285 __libc_start_main_impl (libc.so.6 + 0x27285)
                #34 0x000055a268a6b561 _start (xfce4-panel + 0x15561)
                
                Stack trace of thread 1448:
                #0  0x00007f8d3635703f __GI___poll (libc.so.6 + 0xfc03f)
                #1  0x00007f8d366b19ae n/a (libglib-2.0.so.0 + 0x549ae)
                #2  0x00007f8d366b1acc g_main_context_iteration (libglib-2.0.so.0 + 0x54acc)
                #3  0x00007f8d366b1b11 n/a (libglib-2.0.so.0 + 0x54b11)
                #4  0x00007f8d366dbcfd n/a (libglib-2.0.so.0 + 0x7ecfd)
                #5  0x00007f8d362e4044 start_thread (libc.so.6 + 0x89044)
                #6  0x00007f8d363645fc __clone3 (libc.so.6 + 0x1095fc)
                
                Stack trace of thread 1450:
                #0  0x00007f8d3635703f __GI___poll (libc.so.6 + 0xfc03f)
                #1  0x00007f8d366b19ae n/a (libglib-2.0.so.0 + 0x549ae)
                #2  0x00007f8d366b1cef g_main_loop_run (libglib-2.0.so.0 + 0x54cef)
                #3  0x00007f8d3690c8f6 n/a (libgio-2.0.so.0 + 0x1188f6)
                #4  0x00007f8d366dbcfd n/a (libglib-2.0.so.0 + 0x7ecfd)
                #5  0x00007f8d362e4044 start_thread (libc.so.6 + 0x89044)
                #6  0x00007f8d363645fc __clone3 (libc.so.6 + 0x1095fc)
                ELF object binary architecture: AMD x86-64

With zero insight into XFCE's internals, the "libtasklist.so" part really stands out to me. To me, this appears as if there is something up with the "task list" which matches with my perceived experience of when it (usually/often) crashes.

As you can see from the output, the latest crash is two days old. So apparently it hasn't crashed since. That's unusual. It has, however, displayed the brief "Untitled window" bar in the taskbar numerous times, including today and just minutes ago. I truly cannot figure out/reproduce what exactly is causing these two (likely related) problems.

Last edited by forcedtopicksomething (2023-09-10 09:03:15)

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#27 2023-09-10 11:10:23

ToZ
Administrator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 11,237

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

xfce4-panel crash
Ok, now we need to get a full backtrace with debug symbols. Make sure you have debuginfod and gdb installed. Then, in a terminal window:

export DEBUGINFOD_URLS="https://debuginfod.debian.net/"
coredumpctl gdb PID

When it asks you to enable debuginfod for this session, select 'y' (yes). The at the "(gdb)" prompt, type:

bt full

...and this will give us a full backtrace with debug symbols with which a bug report can be created.

Untitled Window
Note, that I fired up my debian 12 VM and ran my script from above. When I shorten the interval to .25s, I also start to see the random window popup occasionally. Testing this same shortened interval on Arch Linux does not display the extra window, but I do notice that occasionally the window count indicator does not update. Not sure what to make of this.


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#28 2023-09-10 14:29:35

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

ToZ wrote:

xfce4-panel crash
Ok, now we need to get a full backtrace with debug symbols. Make sure you have debuginfod and gdb installed. Then, in a terminal window:

export DEBUGINFOD_URLS="https://debuginfod.debian.net/"
coredumpctl gdb PID

The at the "(gdb)" prompt, type:

bt full

I just get a bunch of "No symbol table info available.". I did not use the

export DEBUGINFOD_URLS="https://debuginfod.debian.net/"

part because I don't know what it does, can't find out, and I suspect that it would upload data from my machine to that URL.

ToZ wrote:

When it asks you to enable debuginfod for this session, select 'y' (yes).

It never asked this.

libdebuginfod-common, libdebuginfod1 and gdb are installed.

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#29 2023-09-10 15:17:30

ToZ
Administrator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 11,237

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

Without running the export command, it won't work. As far as I know, debuginfod simplifies the process of providing debug symbols by downloading them over http to the local machine. I do not know if any telemetry or personal info is sent the other way, perhaps a post on the Debian forums can get you a satisfactory answer.

However, without those debug symbols, it will be impossible to trace the cause of the crash.


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#30 2023-09-10 16:09:02

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

ToZ wrote:

Without running the export command, it won't work. As far as I know, debuginfod simplifies the process of providing debug symbols by downloading them over http to the local machine. I do not know if any telemetry or personal info is sent the other way, perhaps a post on the Debian forums can get you a satisfactory answer.

However, without those debug symbols, it will be impossible to trace the cause of the crash.

I suspect that the output, even if I dared to run the full command (posting anywhere is exhausting), would dump so much sensitive data that I couldn't post it anyway. As I think I've mentioned in the past. Does the info I've given really give no clues?

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#31 2023-09-10 19:32:39

ToZ
Administrator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 11,237

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

forcedtopicksomething wrote:

Does the info I've given really give no clues?

Unfortunately, it is not sufficient. If I could replicate the issue I could generate the backtrace for the developers to look into. However, without the backtrace I'm afraid there isn't really anything of significance that can be done.


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#32 2023-09-11 09:17:56

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

It really sucks if I have to dump XFCE and use the awful Gnome or slightly less awful KDE after all the countless hours I've invested in getting semi-comfortable with XFCE, just because it keeps terrorizing me with flickering taskbar items and crashing taskbars which nobody else can replicate reliably even though it happens on a vanilla XFCE environment on my machine. Sigh...

Last edited by forcedtopicksomething (2023-09-11 09:18:06)

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#33 2023-09-13 08:54:16

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

I'm not implying that you "have a duty" to fix this bug, but seriously, what is up with it and why is so much personal information (which I cannot provide) needed in order to do so? Surely there must be sufficient hints as to what general place in the code is causing this? It's driving me absolutely insane to constantly see stuff moving around down there in the taskbar. I can't use a computer like this. And since it happens on a vanilla configuration, we can exclude any errors made by myself or the Chicago95 theme. So why can't it be fixed? Are the XFCE developers overwhelmed with other issues? Is there little interest in working on XFCE anymore? I'm desperate at this point and would really suffer from having to use a different GUI/DE, especially as I could then no longer use the Chicago95 theme.

My entire Linux experience has so far been quite miserable and full of weird bugs and glitches that nobody seems to care about. But using Windows again is also unthinkable after what Microsoft has done to their OS. It's a really disturbing feeling to be "painted into a corner" like this.

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#34 2023-09-13 09:56:20

ToZ
Administrator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 11,237

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

forcedtopicksomething wrote:

I'm not implying that you "have a duty" to fix this bug, but seriously, what is up with it and why is so much personal information (which I cannot provide) needed in order to do so?

Its not "personal" information. It is program debug information. Follow the process above and have a look at the output - you'll see there isn't anything "personal" about the information there - just code tracing.

Surely there must be sufficient hints as to what general place in the code is causing this? It's driving me absolutely insane to constantly see stuff moving around down there in the taskbar. I can't use a computer like this.

You are experiencing two issues: 1. the additional untitled window, and 2. the xfce4-panel crash. For the first one, since we have a replicator to demonstrate the issue, feel free to create a bug report so a developer can have a look.

For the second one, you can also create a bug report, but I know the developer will ask for a backtrace to help track down the problem.

Are the XFCE developers overwhelmed with other issues? Is there little interest in working on XFCE anymore?

Its not that - its more of a case of having the proper information to find the cause. Consider this scenario: you go to a mechanic and tell them the car is making a weird sound under a certain condition, but you won't tell them which sound or which condition. What are the odds they'll be able to effectively fix this problem for you?

I'm desperate at this point and would really suffer from having to use a different GUI/DE, especially as I could then no longer use the Chicago95 theme.

My entire Linux experience has so far been quite miserable and full of weird bugs and glitches that nobody seems to care about. But using Windows again is also unthinkable after what Microsoft has done to their OS. It's a really disturbing feeling to be "painted into a corner" like this.

Its really up to you at this point on how much effort you want to put forward to have this issue looked at and hopefully resolved.


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#35 2023-09-13 15:56:52

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

ToZ wrote:

Its really up to you at this point on how much effort you want to put forward to have this issue looked at and hopefully resolved.

Once again: it's not about the amount of effort. It's about the very real concern of personal/private information leaking from my machine. Why do you keep pretending that I've not made enough of an effort? Just look at all the stuff I've provided in these threads.

Last edited by forcedtopicksomething (2023-09-13 15:57:22)

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#36 2023-09-13 18:21:07

mint4all
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From: off the map
Registered: 2018-08-21
Posts: 271

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

<<< sorry -- posted in error >>>

Last edited by mint4all (2023-09-13 23:24:01)


Linux Mint 21.2 -- xfce 4.18 ... Apple iMAC -- Dell & HP Desktops and Laptops -- Family & Community Support

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#37 2023-09-15 06:22:46

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

I can now add that switching to UXTerm instead of xfce4-terminal has no difference; I still get both the xfce4-panel crashing and the "Untitled window" flashing thing. So the issues don't have to do directly with xfce4-terminal, at least.

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#38 2023-09-15 20:45:53

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

Also, ToZ, I assumed that you were the main XFCE developer, but judging by your comments, the XFCE developers are separate from this forum? Could you please let them know about this and how much it affects me?

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#39 2023-09-16 07:54:24

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

It's clear by now that there is no interest in fixing these extremely serious bugs and that the XFCE project has basically the same attitude as Microsoft in regards to their users. I'm therefore *forced* to use something else as the constant flashing/crashing is driving me absolutely insane. This is just sad.

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#40 2023-09-16 14:00:33

ToZ
Administrator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 11,237

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

forcedtopicksomething wrote:

Also, ToZ, I assumed that you were the main XFCE developer, but judging by your comments, the XFCE developers are separate from this forum? Could you please let them know about this and how much it affects me?

Feel free to create bug reports at the links I've provided above.


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#41 2023-09-16 15:30:00

mint4all
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From: off the map
Registered: 2018-08-21
Posts: 271

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

forcedtopicksomething wrote:

It's clear by now that there is no interest in fixing these extremely serious bugs and that the XFCE project has basically the same attitude as Microsoft in regards to their users. I'm therefore *forced* to use something else as the constant flashing/crashing is driving me absolutely insane. This is just sad.

Although I understand -- and respect -- your frustrations, I STRONGLY object to your criticism of this project. In my (corporate dev) past I have personally collaborated with some of MS' and IBM's developers & project managers and can state with confidence that you do not have even the slightest idea of their attitude, motives, discipline, or toolchain(s) at their disposal. Equating THAT with XFCE is an utter affront against this project which is run by volunteer contributors, without any major corporate sponsor "putting meat on the plate", producing and maintaining a DE with code-quality & -stability that puts KDE, Cinnamon and Gnome to shame. Run any of those 3 DEs over 6 month without a reboot you'll know what I'm talking about ... 'nuff said.

Thinking outside of the box: what's your obsession with the `Chicago95` theme? Why not switch to and try out  xfce's `Greybird` theme, the very theme that is being used by the devs' as their benchmark theme to validate compliance with the Gtk GUI-libraries and -toolchain? If THAT theme suffers the same problems you observed, that would provide the devs with a starting point. It is just fair to ask you to meet them half way by doing that, right? Remember: they are chasing & fixing bugs on THEIR own time, not that their employers' dime.


Linux Mint 21.2 -- xfce 4.18 ... Apple iMAC -- Dell & HP Desktops and Laptops -- Family & Community Support

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#42 2023-09-17 09:32:22

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

I actually did stop using the Chicago95 theme (uninstalled entirely) before switching, but the bugs didn't go away. I also created a new user account and tried the scripts in a "vanilla" XFCE environment, with zero modifications, and it still happened there. (See earlier in this thread.)

I've switched to KDE Plasma now and it's full of (different) annoyances as well, but at least it doesn't crash the "taskbar" and flash an "Untitled window" bar there constantly. I really did put in an effort to try to get this solved. I'm sure what you said is true, but nevertheless: XFCE became unusable as this issue (which I initially assumed would be gone after a few weeks at most) just kept happening no matter what I tried.

I guess it's less about the amount of care given by the XFCE people and more about this being an issue in the first place. It's such a bizarre thing that never should happen, especially not in such a mature project.

As for my obsession with Chicago95, I really loved the idea of being able to use something which visually looked so similar to the kind of computer environment that I actually liked, when Windows itself wasn't complete garbage. It felt like "coming back home" after wandering around in the wilderness for many years.

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#43 2023-09-17 16:22:49

mint4all
Member
From: off the map
Registered: 2018-08-21
Posts: 271

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

forcedtopicksomething wrote:

I actually did stop using the Chicago95 theme (uninstalled entirely) before switching, but the bugs didn't go away. I also created a new user account and tried the scripts in a "vanilla" XFCE environment, with zero modifications, and it still happened there. (See earlier in this thread.)

Thanks for clarifying ... Ime, that would eliminate most theme-related issues. While there still may be some digital "cruft" left over after the uninstall, not worth spending time on this.

I've switched to KDE Plasma now and it's full of (different) annoyances as well, but at least it doesn't crash the "taskbar" and flash an "Untitled window" bar there constantly.

Kudos for trying that ... However, you are now dealing with an "apples-vs-oranges" scenario: XFCE uses Gtk as its GUI-frontend, KDE uses Qt for that purpose. While either frontend can be tweaked to the point that they visually appear to be similar to each other (aside from KDE's icandy), under the hood they operate somewhat differently. So, for discussion's sake, can i assume that you're running the identical autostart sequence & mix of running apps on either DE? I my foregoing assumption is true, then your stability issues are related to Gtk, not to Qt.

Put another way: Gtk runs into a non-logged thus undiagnosible problem, crashes, then recovers compared to Qt which just ignores it (either logged or non-logged) and keeps running/going. Personally, I opt for the former rather than the latter behavior. That suggests that we now look at how Gtk handles its chores, right? Because Gtk "owns" all parts of the GUI, it does all of the windowing. So when we see a malformed window appear (like your's) we know for certain that SOME process somehere sent a mal-formed "create window" request to Gtk but never concludes its signal loop (it is too soon to speculate on why). That in turn would indicate that it is a process in user-space and runs in the background (hidden from view until it attempts to pop into the foreground).

At the time of crash, which app-window had focus (visual, mouse, keyboard?) Assumed you sat there idle, we need to examine your session's list of autostarted processes, -services, and non-focus running apps to identify which process tried the popup thingy. So would you please take a screenshot, or list, of those items? Thanks.


Linux Mint 21.2 -- xfce 4.18 ... Apple iMAC -- Dell & HP Desktops and Laptops -- Family & Community Support

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#44 2023-09-17 22:37:21

forcedtopicksomething
Member
Registered: 2023-07-26
Posts: 56

Re: How to get rid of the "Untitled Window" flashing by?

mint4all: Sorry, but I've already spent countless hours experimenting on my own, discussing this with people on IRC, searching endlessly online and in two threads on this forum. I've done everything in my power to explain and give as much context and information as possible. I just can't do it anymore. It's not worth it at some point. My energy these days is very low and issues like these just exhaust me. It feels like nothing ever is resolved no matter what; I'm asked to file bugs and they are never looked at, or maybe they are after many years when I've long forgotten about this and moved on. I've come to feel as if there is no point in bringing up most issues in any project, because I'm always told I'm doing something weird, or it works for them, or it's not important, etc. Even the act of filing the bug itself is often full of hurdles which I'm no longer able to deal with.

Ironically, KDE Plasma and/or its Konsole and/or its kstart mechanism also have a similar issue whenever you open "too many Konsole instances too quickly", similarly showing flashing stuff in the taskbar unless you sleep in between. So I'm now actually running xfce4-terminal on KDE Plasma because at least xfce4-terminal has its own minimizing parameter, and does not cause the same issue. So, in a way, XFCE is still partially with me...

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