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#1 2011-08-11 01:42:35

blackjudas
Member
Registered: 2011-08-10
Posts: 7
Website

Thunar dual pane support

I apologize for bringing up a FAQ but the other topics I've run across don't address my real question.

Is two pane support planned for Thunar?  If not, would the idea be rejected by the powers that be?

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#2 2011-08-11 06:58:29

Nick
Dev
From: ~
Registered: 2005-02-17
Posts: 1,143
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

There are enough dual-plane file manager out there.

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#3 2011-08-11 07:56:44

blackjudas
Member
Registered: 2011-08-10
Posts: 7
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

I'm sad to hear that.  Definitely something I'm missing.

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#4 2011-08-13 00:31:31

Markk
Member
Registered: 2011-07-18
Posts: 3

Re: Thunar dual pane support

Yes that is killing me. Alternatively I am trying to find some way to have Thunar tile its own windows. Oh well.

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#5 2011-08-13 08:49:42

thunderogg
Member
Registered: 2011-08-05
Posts: 3

Re: Thunar dual pane support

I use wmctrl exactly for that. smile See: http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=22577#p22577
and http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=20452#p20452

Last edited by thunderogg (2011-08-13 08:52:17)

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#6 2011-08-13 15:01:31

ComputerBob
Member
From: The Sunshine State
Registered: 2010-02-23
Posts: 63
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

Nick wrote:

There are enough dual-plane file manager out there.

Apparently not.  wink


ComputerBob - Making Geek-Speak Chic (TM)
http://www.ComputerBob.com
My New Ministry

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#7 2011-08-16 11:11:09

Rolinh
Member
From: Switzerland
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 20
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

I also think that dual-pane for Thunar would be really great. I currently use the tiling patch for xfwm so I am able to arrange my windows easily but that is not the point.
I do not think that saying that there is enough dual-pane file manager is quite a good answer.
What are the true reasons for not implementing this feature?

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#8 2011-08-16 13:00:54

Nick
Dev
From: ~
Registered: 2005-02-17
Posts: 1,143
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

KISS

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#9 2011-08-16 19:01:08

mmassonnet
Moderator
From: the milky way galaxy
Registered: 2006-07-30
Posts: 99
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

The side-pane is a thing for total/midnight/norton-commander like file managers, and more horrible are the tabs, it makes the whole thing very horrible, no clearly I believe those are bad designs and should never be added into Thunar. At least not inside a file manager that has simplicity in mind.

With Thunar you can middle click (depends on the single/double click configuration) to open a folder in a new window.

If you really need such functionnality:
- Tux Commander
- XFE


Mike

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#10 2011-08-16 19:44:43

Rolinh
Member
From: Switzerland
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 20
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

Thanks mmassonnet for you answer.

I totally agree with you about the tab feature which is totally useless.

I love the KISS philosophy and simplicity in general (one of the reason why I use Archlinux) but I do not think that a dual-pane option would go against these principles, especially if it just an option that can be activated. Moreover, such a feature would not make Thunar run slower.

So if it is for sure that you will never implement such a feature, I will have a look at Thunar's code and write a patch.

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#11 2011-08-16 21:01:13

ComputerBob
Member
From: The Sunshine State
Registered: 2010-02-23
Posts: 63
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

Rolinh wrote:

...I do not think that a dual-pane option would go against these principles, especially if it just an option that can be activated... So if it is for sure that you will never implement such a feature, I will have a look at Thunar's code and write a patch.

If you do, I'd like a copy of it.  wink


ComputerBob - Making Geek-Speak Chic (TM)
http://www.ComputerBob.com
My New Ministry

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#12 2011-08-16 22:13:49

jannis
Moderator
Registered: 2011-06-09
Posts: 19
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

Given the small amount of resources (meaning: time and people) we have right now, we'd be stupid to invest efforts into features like this. A dual-pane mode requires an entirely new set of actions, menu items and shortcuts. It doesn't fit well into the user interface concept of Thunar, so no, dual-pane support is not planned and never has been.

Keeping things simple not only allows us to present a very slick user interface, it also helps in keeping things stable and maintainable. We're already having a hard time to respond to incoming bug reports for some components, so why would we want to risk the stability and simplicity of our software? Even in the most complete pieces of software there is always something missing for someone. We're no different.

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#13 2011-08-17 06:42:39

Rolinh
Member
From: Switzerland
Registered: 2011-01-20
Posts: 20
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

I totally understand your position and by knowing Ali personally, I know that a few more developers would be welcomed in the Xfce project meaning that you cannot afford to have one of your developer implementing these sort of features.

Nevertheless, I'll see if I have time and where it leads to patch Thunar for dual-pane support as a "side-project". At least, I will try and see the feasibility and the time it takes knowing that this possible patch would never be integrated into Thunar.

By the way, thanks for bringing us such a nice, simple and lightweight DE and all the efforts put into that.

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#14 2011-10-26 07:19:06

blackjudas
Member
Registered: 2011-08-10
Posts: 7
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

While I understand the undertaking it would involve in adding and maintaining such a feature doesn't put it high up on the agenda, I support adding this feature as I have used it for years in my workflow.  Most file managers out there have had this feature available.  From the days of Norton Commander, Windows 95, MC under Linux to today's GNOME hence my need to see something available in the DE I use.

I thank anyone who decides to undertake this task ahead of time as it's a real spoiler for me.  Don't misconstrue my position, I like lightweight, it really is the only way to avoid feature creep.  I simply find that Thunar is sorely missing this feature.  I'd love to add it, but my spare time is being eaten by another project ATM.

Thanks!

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#15 2011-11-15 13:47:43

xfcelav
Member
From: /var/www/xfcelav
Registered: 2008-04-10
Posts: 94
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

Nick wrote:

There are enough dual-plane file manager out there.

It's a shame having to read a response like that. I was quite disappointed. It is true that there are many tabbed file managers, but the Xfce file manager, for better or for worse is Thunar, and it does not have that option. Why should you use a different file manager? sad

mmassonnet wrote:

The side-pane is a thing for total/midnight/norton-commander like file managers, and more horrible are the tabs, it makes the whole thing very horrible, no clearly I believe those are bad designs and should never be added into Thunar. At least not inside a file manager that has simplicity in mind. With Thunar you can middle click (depends on the single/double click configuration) to open a folder in a new window.

The fact that the use of tabs is horrible for you, does not mean it is also for me. I think (maybe I'm wrong) that is intended as an Xfce desktop environment for users of all kinds, not just users.

jannis wrote:

Given the small amount of resources (meaning: time and people) we have right now, we'd be stupid to invest efforts into features like this. A dual-pane mode requires an entirely new set of actions, menu items and shortcuts. It doesn't fit well into the user interface concept of Thunar, so no, dual-pane support is not planned and never has been.
Keeping things simple not only allows us to present a very slick user interface, it also helps in keeping things stable and maintainable. We're already having a hard time to respond to incoming bug reports for some components, so why would we want to risk the stability and simplicity of our software? Even in the most complete pieces of software there is always something missing for someone. We're no different.

I fully understand your point of view. I fully understand that the development of time-dependent Xfce developers to provide.

But I think when you want to achieve something, you can achieve. If I had the knowledge to myself to fork Thunar with tabs, I would, but unfortunately I am not a programmer. I'm just an Xfce user who would like (as many others) that Thunar had this feature.
I always use the same example. Pcmanfm is so light (or more) than Thunar and has tabs.

I also understand that you like KISS philosophy. Could not have tabs Thunar as an optional extra? Something like an extension?

Rolinh wrote:

Nevertheless, I'll see if I have time and where it leads to patch Thunar for dual-pane support as a "side-project". At least, I will try and see the feasibility and the time it takes knowing that this possible patch would never be integrated into Thunar.

No matter if Xfce developers do not take seriously your project. If you can do, is functional and can be used safely by millions of people will appreciate it.

Encouragement!

Excuse my bad English. Use a translator. Sorry if I feel the same feeling I had when Mark Shuttleworth said that Ubuntu was not a democracy. I love Xfce, I think can be the best desktop GNU / Linux, but going against the logical step of evolution, simply wanting something KISS, or because they look ugly to some, is not the most correct decision.

Sorry if I offend anyone with my opinion.

greeting...


url: blog.desdelinux.net
twt: @elavdeveloper

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#16 2011-11-29 16:52:53

Tom
Member
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 1

Re: Thunar dual pane support

Nick wrote:

There are enough dual-plane file manager out there.

This is the worst reason you can give to not implement tabs or dual pane.
There are enough file-managing file managers out there, why did you even implement file managing?

xfcelav wrote:

The fact that the use of tabs is horrible for you, does not mean it is also for me. I think (maybe I'm wrong) that is intended as an Xfce desktop environment for users of all kinds, not just users.

Especially this environment may not only be used by the developers.

Thunar must not become complicated because features are added: You may let the user chose, which features to use with Thunar.

Last edited by Tom (2011-11-29 16:53:41)

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#17 2012-01-14 13:12:57

mathew
Member
Registered: 2012-01-14
Posts: 1

Re: Thunar dual pane support

Developers if you don't have users your coding efforts are redundant, users want a way to deal with multiple directories in an organised way. Your development religion is meaning less to most users.

KISS is a good approach of course but rather than denying a users needs or wants the same KISS approach could be applied to addressing the user needs in a KISS fashion.

By now I am thinking of the band KISS smile

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#18 2012-01-24 23:34:35

PeteA
Member
Registered: 2012-01-24
Posts: 1

Re: Thunar dual pane support

One major problem with the "Just use another file manager" argument is that Thunar manages the desktop, too; so then we start getting into a place where you're replacing another key part of the UI. Given that I'm not using it, I can just remove it, right?  Except that then removes xfdesktop, so I've just lost the metapackage responsible for keeping the whole environment up-to-date and in sync [particularly important for me because I'm on a rolling release distro]

As a commercial software developer myself, I completely understand the pressures of maintenance vs. extended functionality.  Unfortunately, as has been pointed out by another poster, if the functionality doesn't advance sufficiently in line with users' expectations then people will end up moving away, and nobody'll want those bug fixes anyway.  There's clearly a lot of demand for the functionality, so it seems rather disingenuous to claim that "tabs are useless"; they may be for the way you work, but for me I use them extensively in just about every application that I use.

At the end of the day, of course, obviously you're always trying to steer the right course between the various conflicting interests and ideas.  Thanks for the direction you've gone so far in creating the XFCE environment that I rely on daily.

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#19 2012-05-23 19:42:31

orbspider
Member
Registered: 2012-01-20
Posts: 11
Website

Re: Thunar dual pane support

I'd really value a hit-and-copy-to [specified location] or hit-and-move-to [specified location] quite like I would use a dual panel F.M. for.

If there won't be dual panel in thunar, which would help with copy and move, can't there be something innovative, like a Target button (set by drop-down dir menu) at top right, to drag things to.  Why can't we drag files to places on the dir tree and have them open in the main panel to drop the files in?  or can we did I miss that?  currently i think we can drag files to the location bar buttons right, but that only works going up the hierarchy and cross-wise into a dir (and Space drops it in too) but not down into another string.  I quite like seeing what's in both locations at the same time though.
so its two windows for that then with Alt-Tab?  that's actually not bad.  could keep thunar operating on its own workspace then so theat switching windows is simple.

I've been using Xfe quite a bit, but it has its quirks too, like no shortcuts in left panel, unable to recognise Linux text files, masses of time making thumbnails and no multiple-file renaming.

and I come to thunar for yes, renaming files and looking for pics.

cheers

Last edited by orbspider (2012-05-23 20:10:18)

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#20 2012-06-03 23:52:22

Sproggy
Member
Registered: 2010-01-14
Posts: 11

Re: Thunar dual pane support

i simply use the Copy To and Move To in my Right Click Custom Actions as below ...

<action><icon>folder-copy</icon><name>Copy To ...</name><command>cp %F $(zenity --file-selection --directory)</command><description>Copy To ...</description><patterns>*</patterns><directories/><audio-files/><image-files/><other-files/><text-files/><video-files/></action>

<action><icon>folder-move</icon><name>Move To ...</name><command>mv %F $(zenity --file-selection --directory)</command><description>Move To ...</description><patterns>*</patterns><directories/><audio-files/><image-files/><other-files/><text-files/><video-files/></action>

with these two in my right click ... i would never have a need for too many stupid panes ... more panes becomes a pain

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#21 2012-06-04 22:50:46

secipolla
Member
Registered: 2012-01-15
Posts: 393

Re: Thunar dual pane support

Thanks for that one, Sproggy.
Here's in the new format ~/.config/Thunar/uca.xml uses:

<action>
	<icon>stock_folder-copy</icon>
	<name>Copy To...</name>
	<command>cp %F $(zenity --file-selection --directory)</command>
	<description>Copy this item</description>
	<patterns>*</patterns>
	<startup-notify/>
	<directories/>
	<audio-files/>
	<image-files/>
	<other-files/>
	<text-files/>
	<video-files/>
</action>
<action>
	<icon>stock_folder-move</icon>
	<name>Move To...</name>
	<command>mv %F $(zenity --file-selection --directory)</command>
	<description>Move this item</description>
	<patterns>*</patterns>
	<startup-notify/>
	<directories/>
	<audio-files/>
	<image-files/>
	<other-files/>
	<text-files/>
	<video-files/>
</action>

Last edited by secipolla (2012-06-04 22:52:51)

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#22 2013-02-17 14:14:33

mtrath
Member
Registered: 2013-02-17
Posts: 1

Re: Thunar dual pane support

I'm sorry that this has nothing to do with the topic, but the custom actions for thunar above are buggy. I doesn't handle destination folders with spaces correctly. In fact it can't copy directories at all. Here's the fix:

<action>
	<icon>stock_folder-copy</icon>
	<name>Copy To...</name>
	<command>cp -r %F &quot;$(zenity --file-selection --directory)&quot;</command>
	<description>Copy this item</description>
	<patterns>*</patterns>
	<startup-notify/>
	<directories/>
	<audio-files/>
	<image-files/>
	<other-files/>
	<text-files/>
	<video-files/>
</action>
<action>
	<icon>stock_folder-move</icon>
	<name>Move To...</name>
	<command>mv %F &quot;$(zenity --file-selection --directory)&quot;</command>
	<description>Move this item</description>
	<patterns>*</patterns>
	<startup-notify/>
	<directories/>
	<audio-files/>
	<image-files/>
	<other-files/>
	<text-files/>
	<video-files/>
</action>

Those "&quot;" strings really have to be in this file. It's not an encoding error.

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#23 2013-02-20 12:45:43

parnote
Member
From: Independence, MO, USA
Registered: 2010-05-07
Posts: 6

Re: Thunar dual pane support

secipolla wrote:

Thanks for that one, Sproggy.
Here's in the new format ~/.config/Thunar/uca.xml uses:

<action>
	<icon>stock_folder-copy</icon>
	<name>Copy To...</name>
	<command>cp %F $(zenity --file-selection --directory)</command>
	<description>Copy this item</description>
	<patterns>*</patterns>
	<startup-notify/>
	<directories/>
	<audio-files/>
	<image-files/>
	<other-files/>
	<text-files/>
	<video-files/>
</action>
<action>
	<icon>stock_folder-move</icon>
	<name>Move To...</name>
	<command>mv %F $(zenity --file-selection --directory)</command>
	<description>Move this item</description>
	<patterns>*</patterns>
	<startup-notify/>
	<directories/>
	<audio-files/>
	<image-files/>
	<other-files/>
	<text-files/>
	<video-files/>
</action>

True enough. If you're editing the uca.xml directly, you should use the &quot; text. BUT ... when entering the information via the Configure Custom Action dialog box, use the double quote character on the keyboard. When you close out of the Configure Custom Action dialog box, the double quote character from the keyboard ( " ) will get written to the uca.xml file as &quot;.

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