Trying to understand sound

xyzdragon · 2016-08-26 19:23:50

Hello,

I have sound problems ...

1. Since some weeks ago VLC player is relatively quiet, not like unhearable quite, but it's no fun. Interestingly though smplayer is quite a bit louder.
2. The sound on my PC (Asrock Z77 Extreme internal sound card) is all in all not very loud on max. volume. I think it was louder some months ago, but Windows was always. Louder. I can easily hear music on 100%, often even 150% with ugly distortions.
3. The sound on my Lenovo E330 notebook instead is too loud! Often I hear on 20%, 70% is my personal maximum. On 100% I fear for my hearing. I use the same headsets on both.

I'm pretty sure that alsamixer is both on maximum. Because VLC messes up the per-application-sound I already wrote a bash function to equalize the volumes again, so I'm sure it's not that simple of a problem:

equalize-volumes () 
{ 
    local masterVolume sink;
    masterVolume=$(amixer get 'Master' | sed -nr 's|.*\[([0-9]*%)\].*|\1|p' | head -1);
    for sink in $(pactl list sink-inputs | sed -nr 's/^Sink Input #(.*)/\1/p');
    do
        pactl set-sink-input-volume $sink $masterVolume;
    done
}

I just don't understand it. I need a short rundown or at least some links to get me started on this subject.
Like:
- Can I query any metrics of my sound card which signal the maximum output? Like voltage or whatever?
- Can I adjust my sound card in some way to increase the output?
- Is it a 2.0 vs. 5.1 problem? (I think it would be worse then, but I don't know. The Z77 internal sound card seems to support 5.1) Can I adjust it somewhere then in Linux or query what is being used currently?
- What is the software sound stack? I.e. why is VLC quite quieter than smplayer?
- Is my only option to buy a hardware amplifier? Wouldn't that have the same distortion problems?

I know there are thousands of threads with this problem, but most of them either give no answer or try to increase the volume in software. I'm more interested in why this happens, why there are differences between hardware and how I can query that somehow.

Btw: My smartphone is also much louder than my PC. This is kinda ridiculous, PC masterrace, hah!

Edit: I guess, this is somehwat the direction I had in mind: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Alsa-sound-6.html

Last edited by xyzdragon (2016-08-26 20:08:52)

ozjd · 2016-08-26 22:40:48

This isn't really a Xfce thing but if your distro uses PulseAudio look at the Pulseaudio Volume Control and check the settings in there. It is even possible to set individual volumes for different applications on the Playback tab while the applications are playing.

Last edited by ozjd (2016-08-26 22:41:16)

MountainDewManiac · 2016-08-27 01:52:39

ozjd wrote:

This isn't really a Xfce thing but if your distro uses PulseAudio look at the Pulseaudio Volume Control and check the settings in there.

I can tap (click) on the icon representing it (in the indicator plugin) on the panel that I have placed it on, then select "Sound Settings..." at the bottom, and it will open a small window that has, among other things, a pair of sliders to adjust volume control. It's kind of(!) goofy in that "100%" is only about two thirds of the way across instead of being all the way to the right. I equate 100% with maximum. Perhaps Microsoft also knows that if you fill a container of water 100% full, set it on your lap, and then add another 1/3 to it you're just going to soak your lap roll and that is why your sound levels are higher at a given "percentage" in a Windows OS? Regardless, you can manually move the sliders past the place that the developer calls "100%" and your audio level will increase. The behavior is also kind of goofy, however - for example, if I am doing a search in Firefox on Youtube in a tab, find a list of videos, open one of them in its own tab (so I can keep the list open), and then raise the volume level past "100%" (you know, like to 80%, lol?) so that I can hear the audio of the video... When I close that tab and open a different video in another tab the volume has gone back to murmers. I guess that must be part of the whole "PulseAudio can manage a number of tasks - but none of them very well" strategy or something. I am thinking that I have observed the volume level fall back to mumbling (or perhaps it was muttering) when I was still viewing the same video but had done something like enter/exit fullscreen mode, but I cannot swear to that.

Whatever the deal is, it is about as annoying as visiting someone whose pets - and house - have a flea infestation. Try to listen to something. Adjust the volume so you can hear it. Do something in regards to what you are listening to. Adjust the volume again so you can hear it. Rinse, lather, repeat. Cuss out the developer. Adjust the volume so you can hear it. Do something in regards to what you are listening to. Adjust the volume again so you can hear it. Rinse, lather, repeat. Find yourself wishing that all linux distros cost $75+ each like Microsoft's OS do so that all the various developers would get paid and feel an obligation to produce decent software. Et cetera.

In short: With PulseAudio, you can increase the volume over and above what the basic indicator implies. And you will find yourself doing so, over and over - until you hate the thing.

Regards,
MDM

xyzdragon · 2016-08-27 19:12:57

ozjd wrote:

look at the Pulseaudio Volume Control and check the settings in there. It is even possible to set individual volumes for different applications on the Playback tab while the applications are playing.

MountainDewManiac wrote:

In short: With PulseAudio, you can increase the volume over and above what the basic indicator implies. And you will find yourself doing so, over and over - until you hate the thing.

I thought I did mention this, but I know all that. I don't want distortions and I don't see a practical reason if all my other hardware can be tuned much louder without distortions.
Therefore I thought it was some hardware or driver problem and I wanted to confirm that somehow before actually buying an amplifier or hell even a dedicated sound card, I don't know.

xyzdragon · 2016-08-30 12:05:31

Some measurements with SoundMeter App by holding my headphones to my Honor 5X:

Notebook Linux VLC          67-74dB
Smartphone                  67-72dB
PC Linux Audacious          57-67dB
PC Linux VLC                38-42dB
No Music                    17-25dB
No Music Fenster Closed     10-12dB

Well my Notebook and my Smartphone seem to be objectively almost equal loud. I thought my notebook would be quite a lot louder. But max volume 42dB in VLC on Linux on my PC is really unacceptable. I already tried deleting ~/.vlc/ to no avail. At least VLC did work at some time. It only recently turned to be quieter than all my other software. I'm not sure if it coincides with some update.

Edit: My test track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gzBqayDmJ8

Last edited by xyzdragon (2016-08-30 12:06:44)

ColdBoot · 2016-08-30 18:56:10

Just for the hack of it, you can append the following to the end of /etc/pulse/default.pa

load-module module-ladspa-sink sink_name=compressor plugin=sc4_1882 label=sc4 control=1,1.5,401,-10,20,5,12
set-default-sink compressor

and then pick as the source for VLC the new LADSPA plugin in pavucontrol. Hope this helps.

Last edited by ColdBoot (2016-08-30 18:57:42)

xyzdragon · 2016-09-04 11:54:05

ColdBoot wrote:

Just for the hack of it, you can append the following to the end of /etc/pulse/default.pa
load-module module-ladspa-sink sink_name=compressor plugin=sc4_1882 label=sc4 control=1,1.5,401,-10,20,5,12
set-default-sink compressor
and then pick as the source for VLC the new LADSPA plugin in pavucontrol. Hope this helps.

I'm sorry, I did not yet get in the mood to test this.

But I solved the general lack of volume by random chance! I was reading a bit in https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ad … ith_amixer
and was again in the command line tool alsamixer. By default it shows some kind of (default)-sound card I don't know. I guess it is some kind of software abstraction layer. The volume there can be adjusted with the louder/quieter keys and the xfce-volume applet.

BUT!! When pressing F6 I also could choose "HDA Intel PCH". The volume there was on 80% and couldn't be changed by any other means! Especially not with pavucontrol. In the "Output Devices"-Tab it only lists the (default) device, not the two NVIDIA-devices and Intel PCH like alsamixer does show them! It seems like both Master volumes get multiplied by each other for the netto master volume.

Well after setting the Master volume of HDA Intel PCH to 100% at least audacious and mplayer work again like expected. Didn't test VLC yet. Also I don't know how I turned that volume of HDA Intel PCH down in the first place.

Finally I can keep deteriorating my ears smile

Last edited by xyzdragon (2016-09-04 12:04:43)

ColdBoot · 2016-09-04 12:12:23

Never mind, I thought that you had already checked the settings in alsamixer which often helps.

xyzdragon · 2016-09-04 12:15:13

ColdBoot wrote:

Never mind, I thought that you had already checked the settings in alsamixer which often helps.

I thought so, too. But I also thought the master volume shown by default actually is the "master" volume. Didn't know that I could adjust a per-sound-card volume there, too.
But the other way around I kept looking for other sound cards in pavucontrol, because I think some time in the past there were more than one output device available/shown in pavucontrol.

Last edited by xyzdragon (2016-09-04 12:15:58)

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#1 2016-08-26 19:23:50

Trying to understand sound

#2 2016-08-26 22:40:48

Re: Trying to understand sound

#3 2016-08-27 01:52:39

Re: Trying to understand sound

#4 2016-08-27 19:12:57

Re: Trying to understand sound

#5 2016-08-30 12:05:31

Re: Trying to understand sound

#6 2016-08-30 18:56:10

Re: Trying to understand sound

#7 2016-09-04 11:54:05

Re: Trying to understand sound

#8 2016-09-04 12:12:23

Re: Trying to understand sound

#9 2016-09-04 12:15:13

Re: Trying to understand sound

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