Backward action for settings in Terminal

Garth · 2018-07-15 03:12:46

I have been having significant problems with the Cairo Dock, especially with transparency and the docks. The lack of direct control of compositing managers in XFCE has been quite a roadblock. But this post is not (directly) about the Cairo dock (unless any of you see a connection!)

I noticed that my Terminal ONLY showed the desktop background via transparency (similar to the Cairo dock and sub-docks on mouse-over) and not any intermediate windows. The Terminal Preference->Apperance->Background was set to "Transparent background" (which SHOULD work). In exasperation (after fiddling with settings and reading dozens of forums), I randomly changed that setting to "Background image" (which SHOULD be a set image) -- and now it works as it should! Transparency showing anything behind it (desktop, windows, widgets, taskbar, even the dock). No the Cairo dock didn't fix.

Why would this 'fix', even though the settings are backwards??

ozjd · 2018-07-15 07:04:22

Which version of terminal are you using?

When you mention compositing managers do you mean that you aren't using xfwm and its compositor?

Garth · 2018-07-15 22:41:40

xfwm4, compton (not sure how to check version).

No Composting tab under Window Manager Tweaks to check (one of the reasons I'm having problems with Cairo Dock since most help points to this).

XFCE Terminal, doesn't show a version number (looking under preferences).

Thanks for the quick reply!

Last edited by Garth (2018-07-15 22:45:48)

ozjd · 2018-07-15 23:10:47

If you are running Compton you aren't using Xfwm. It is possible that Compton handles transparency differently but it isn't an Xfce issue. Better to check with Compton's support.

Garth · 2018-07-15 23:39:50

Thanks for the quick reply.

Top shows BOTH Compton and Xfwm running -- whether they are being 'used' or not. If they are running (checked using Top), how can I check if they are being 'used' (or overridden)??

Cairo Dock needs Compton running. But it is not working properly. Perhaps there is a conflict between it and Xfwm, allowing both to be working causing a problem in both the Cairo dock transparancy and the Terminal's transparency actions (the purpose of this post). Can you see why I'm confused now?! smile

ToZ · 2018-07-16 01:49:08

xfwm is a window manager and compositor. Compton is a compositor only. If you are running compton, then it is running in place of xfwm's compositor. In fact, since you have no Compositor tab in Window Manager Tweaks, it looks like xfwm was built with the compositor disabled. There is a distro out there that does this, I can't remember which one though.

So basically, @ozjd is correct. Your issue is with compton and compton is not an Xfce component. You may be able to get better support through your distro's support forums or you can create an issue report at compton. However, note that compton has been dormant since about 2016.

MountainDewManiac · 2018-07-16 03:06:34

ToZ wrote:

In fact, since you have no Compositor tab in Window Manager Tweaks, it looks like xfwm was built with the compositor disabled. There is a distro out there that does this

On purpose, lol? Why, since the very first option in the Compositor tab of Window Manager Tweaks is a checkbox to enable/disable compositing? Wouldn't it be more sensible to allow it at the distro level and leave it up to the individual users as to whether they wish to enable it or not?

ToZ wrote:

Your issue is with compton and compton is not an Xfce component.

Understood; this really isn't the place for troubleshooting it. With that being said...

ToZ wrote:

note that compton has been dormant since about 2016.

I did a couple of quick web searches. But... dormant, really? If I remember correctly, at one point, some people were stating that Compton was going to be the next great thing roll . I might be misremembering, though.

Garth wrote:

compton

The first web search I did was for "compton settings gui" (sans quotation marks). The first result was lxqt/compton-conf, which appears to be a GUI configuration tool for compton. That might be helpful, although I do not know whether or not it'd work in Xfce (although I assume so). Other results from that search include links to informative web pages that discuss settings, et cetera, including the ArchWiki article on compton (ArchWiki pages seem to be universally informative and useful). You might consider performing the same web search and taking a look at some of the web pages in the results list.

Garth wrote:

Cairo Dock needs Compton running.

Intersting. Are you sure about that? I do not know one way or the other - but the second web search I did was for "xfce cairo dock," again sans quotation marks. The first result was to a LifeWire web page titled "A Guide to Setting Up and Using Cairo Dock." I saw zero mention of compton in the article, lol, and if using that thing was a requirement for using Cairo Dock, I'd think that compton would have at least been mentioned. The second result in that search was to the ArchWiki page on Cairo Dock. Again, a page search for "compton" shows that that article does not mention the word a single time, either.

Therefore, my guess is that you are incorrect. The LifeWire article does state instruct people to make sure they have A compositing window manager installed, but it does not specify any particular one. And the ArchWiki article actually shows that Cairo Dock can be run without a compositing WM, by discussing a thing that occurs when this is done (and how to get around not having one installed/enabled).

Further evidence that compton is not, in fact, required. It does look like the thing was written with the assumption that users would be using one, for the most part - but Xfce's own should work just fine for that (an assumption on my part, but neither of the searches I performed appears to obviously dispute this assumption). In my opinion, the developer of your particular distro has just chosen to... well, screw its Xfce users. Perhaps, instead of trying to figure out a third-party compositor that hasn't been worked on in the past couple of years and how to make it work for you, lol, your time would be better spent in choosing a distro that didn't handicap its users in that manner. Linux users in general are pretty willing to help people, so I suppose that, if you keep searching and asking for help, you'll end up finding people who'll attempt to help you on your issue...

However, is it really wise to depend on a major system component that isn't even currently being maintained? I think not, but your opinion is obviously the most important one (for YOU) here. But that's what I'd do, go find a distro that allows Xfce and all its associated components to function properly.

Regards,
MDM

Garth · 2018-07-16 04:56:46

Cool, cool, cool. Thanks. I didn't realise that Xfwm was a compositor too.

The distro I'm using is GalliumOS, on a Chromebook. It uses Compton as a core component of its distribution (which is probably why the compositor is disabled in xfwm). Note that Terminal worked fine with Compton in the past. I only noticed it recently, and only when i noticed problems with Cairo dock. (And note that Cairo dock was working fine before too) OK, I see now that the problem is something with Cairo dock, and it's making a component of Xfce (Terminal) act funny.

Thanks for all your help!

ToZ · 2018-07-16 11:12:37

MountainDewManiac wrote:

ToZ wrote:
note that compton has been dormant since about 2016.
I did a couple of quick web searches. But... dormant, really? If I remember correctly, at one point, some people were stating that Compton was going to be the next great thing . I might be misremembering, though.

Compton's github page in the commits section, shows that there hasn't been any real work was done since 2015/2016. It doesn't look like it's currently being worked on.

Garth · 2018-07-16 19:12:19

MountainDewManiac wrote:

ToZ wrote:
In fact, since you have no Compositor tab in Window Manager Tweaks, it looks like xfwm was built with the compositor disabled. There is a distro out there that does this
On purpose, lol? Why, since the very first option in the Compositor tab of Window Manager Tweaks is a checkbox to enable/disable compositing? Wouldn't it be more sensible to allow it at the distro level and leave it up to the individual users as to whether they wish to enable it or not?

GalliumOS, my distribution of choice (since it works well with Chromebooks), was designed to work with Compton, with the xfwm compositor disabled. I don't know why the designers of GalliumOS chose Compton over the xfwm compositor -- that is a question to ask the developers.

Xfce (or xfwm?) can be compiled such that compositing is disabled in xfwm (and therefore have a compositor tab in Window Manager Tweaks) -- it might not seem "sensible", but perhaps the designers of GalliumOS didn't want the 'danger' of a newb trying to run two compositors at the same time (since Compton should already be running in GalliumOS).

MountainDewManiac wrote:

Garth wrote:
Cairo Dock needs Compton running.
Intersting. Are you sure about that? I do not know one way or the other - but the second web search I did was for "xfce cairo dock," again sans quotation marks. The first result was to a LifeWire web page titled "A Guide to Setting Up and Using Cairo Dock." I saw zero mention of compton in the article, lol, and if using that thing was a requirement for using Cairo Dock, I'd think that compton would have at least been mentioned. The second result in that search was to the ArchWiki page on Cairo Dock. Again, a page search for "compton" shows that that article does not mention the word a single time, either.
Therefore, my guess is that you are incorrect. The LifeWire article does state instruct people to make sure they have A compositing window manager installed, but it does not specify any particular one. And the ArchWiki article actually shows that Cairo Dock can be run without a compositing WM, by discussing a thing that occurs when this is done (and how to get around not having one installed/enabled).

Sorry, I should qualify: Cairo needs *a* compositor to run (at least for the actions/effects I want). As mentioned above, since Compton is the compositor for GalliumOS, it is what I have to work with right now. Also, GalliumOS is built on 16.04, so it too is a bit dated (perfectly functional, like Compton, but dated). So, YES, I feel a bit locked in right now, and that IS a bit anti-Linux/Open-Source.

MountainDewManiac wrote:

Further evidence that compton is not, in fact, required. It does look like the thing was written with the assumption that users would be using one, for the most part - but Xfce's own should work just fine for that (an assumption on my part, but neither of the searches I performed appears to obviously dispute this assumption). In my opinion, the developer of your particular distro has just chosen to... well, screw its Xfce users. Perhaps, instead of trying to figure out a third-party compositor that hasn't been worked on in the past couple of years and how to make it work for you, lol, your time would be better spent in choosing a distro that didn't handicap its users in that manner. Linux users in general are pretty willing to help people, so I suppose that, if you keep searching and asking for help, you'll end up finding people who'll attempt to help you on your issue...
However, is it really wise to depend on a major system component that isn't even currently being maintained? I think not, but your opinion is obviously the most important one (for YOU) here. But that's what I'd do, go find a distro that allows Xfce and all its associated components to function properly.
Regards,
MDM

Your point is well taken, and I appreciate the time you take you have taken to research it. I have been a Linux user for over 20 years, and I still feel like a newb. I agree that I have handcuffed myself committing to a 'major system component' that has limited support, but I'm going to stick with it. I purposely bought an older Chromebook to run Linux (to show off how good it is on older devices). While frustration sometimes makes me want a 'quick fix', the process of discovery is the best course for a true Linux devotee.

So, transparency in Terminal is working fine, even though the settings are backwards (unless I am misinterpreting their meaning!). Compton seems to be working 'fine' itself (transparency is working fine with the windows and the dock). The dock itself has two problems: 1) it sometimes has a black bar behind it, which would require running Compton manually to remove it (but has recently eliminated itself!!); 2) the menu, on mouse over, is a) too wide, and b) shows the desktop and not a true transparency (cuts off the window below). So, it looks like this is a Cairo Dock issue (I guess).

Of course, NONE of this has to do with XFCE so I will end this post. Thanks to all of you ( @ToZ, @MountainDewManiac, @ozjd ) for all your help!

MountainDewManiac · 2018-07-16 20:23:20

I am not familiar with that distro (along with many others). If it is specifically targeted toward users of the Chromebook devices, perhaps there are technical reasons why compton was used? I don't know.

Apologies if I came off as harsh in my opinions about your distro of choice.

Regards,
MDM

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#1 2018-07-15 03:12:46

Backward action for settings in Terminal

#2 2018-07-15 07:04:22

Re: Backward action for settings in Terminal

#3 2018-07-15 22:41:40

Re: Backward action for settings in Terminal

#4 2018-07-15 23:10:47

Re: Backward action for settings in Terminal

#5 2018-07-15 23:39:50

Re: Backward action for settings in Terminal

#6 2018-07-16 01:49:08

Re: Backward action for settings in Terminal

#7 2018-07-16 03:06:34

Re: Backward action for settings in Terminal

#8 2018-07-16 04:56:46

Re: Backward action for settings in Terminal

#9 2018-07-16 11:12:37

Re: Backward action for settings in Terminal

#10 2018-07-16 19:12:19

Re: Backward action for settings in Terminal

#11 2018-07-16 20:23:20

Re: Backward action for settings in Terminal

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