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#1 2019-08-21 11:57:16

ToZ
Moderator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 7,672

The Road to 4.16

The 4.16 roadmap has been announced (https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.16/roadmap).

Looks like a one-year turn around to the next stable release, but no commitment to wayland or GTK4 at the moment. There has been alot of talk about moving to GitLab, which would be nice transition away from our current development infrastructure.

Keep your eye on the 4.16 roadmap link as decisions are made about what will be worked on for the next release.

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#2 2019-10-21 00:52:51

mauser
Member
Registered: 2019-01-23
Posts: 25

Re: The Road to 4.16

I hope the developers of Xfce will incorporate a G.U.I. application that handles at least boot-up and shut-down sounds so that the user can easily change using standard sound formats. This is my only disappointment not seeing this feature in Xfce 4.14. Other sounds that users can change would be additional plus but at least boot-up and shut-down sounds, "please" pretty please with sugar on top.


I am command line illiterate. I use MX Linux 19.

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#3 2019-10-21 10:40:47

ToZ
Moderator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 7,672

Re: The Road to 4.16

You can do that now in the Settings Manager > Sessions and Startup > Application Autostart section. Create 2 new entries, one called Startup Sound and the other called Shutdown Sound. For the first, set the trigger to "on login", for the second, set the trigger to "on logout". The use a command like "canberra-gtk-play -f /path/to/sound/file" or "mplayer /path/to/sound/file", or any other cli play command.

For other sound events, have a read through this thread. It's still valid.

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#4 2019-10-21 11:33:09

Jerry3904
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 819

Re: The Road to 4.16

Since you are running Xubuntu, you can probably use one of the MX Tools, "System Sounds."

https://github.com/MX-Linux/mx-system-sounds

Last edited by Jerry3904 (2019-10-21 12:34:08)


MX-19.4 (based on Debian Stable) with our flagship Xfce 4.16.
My little collection: Xfce Tidbits

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#5 2019-12-27 23:03:46

Reaccion Raul
Member
Registered: 2018-04-25
Posts: 18

Re: The Road to 4.16

So great to se Expose as one of the topics in the roadmap!

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#6 2019-12-28 05:13:03

Skaperen
Member
From: right by Jesus, our Saviour
Registered: 2013-06-15
Posts: 511

Re: The Road to 4.16

ToZ wrote:

You can do that now in the Settings Manager > Sessions and Startup > Application Autostart section. Create 2 new entries, one called Startup Sound and the other called Shutdown Sound. For the first, set the trigger to "on login", for the second, set the trigger to "on logout". The use a command like "canberra-gtk-play -f /path/to/sound/file" or "mplayer /path/to/sound/file", or any other cli play command.

For other sound events, have a read through this thread. It's still valid.

does this apply to the whole system coming up or down or a user logging in or out?  i currently have 18 different users logged in to console sessions,

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#7 2019-12-28 12:53:24

ToZ
Moderator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 7,672

Re: The Road to 4.16

It's a user-based solution - so when a user logins in or out. However, Xfce 4.14 now has triggers, so you can assign these events to any trigger in login, logout, shutdown, restart, suspend, hibernate.

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#8 2019-12-28 19:33:56

Skaperen
Member
From: right by Jesus, our Saviour
Registered: 2013-06-15
Posts: 511

Re: The Road to 4.16

by "restart" does that include booting up cold (as in from a fresh power up) or only from a reboot?

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#9 2020-01-02 16:43:11

mauser
Member
Registered: 2019-01-23
Posts: 25

Re: The Road to 4.16

Recommendations for the continue improvements to Xfce. I am back on MX Linux 19 which the developers make it easy. Since I have Xfce 4.14 I see there are still some issues with certain windows that I hope the Xfce developers can correct with the release of Xfce 4.16. For example when you left click on the weather app in the panel and click on the square up top in the boarder nothing happens, only dragging the edge works. Then there are windows or dialog boxes that don't have a boarder on top that can't be resized no matter what ever you do. Alt+left click is required to move them to access the inaccessible portions of it. For these windows or dialog boxes I hope the developers can make dragging the edge work for horizontal and vertical resizing. I would also recommend that no matter what kind of windows or dialog boxes are that once they are resize by the user that they retain that size. Keep up the great work.


I am command line illiterate. I use MX Linux 19.

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#10 2020-03-09 08:18:48

NemKo
Member
Registered: 2020-03-09
Posts: 21

Re: The Road to 4.16

on xfce 4.14 everything is almost perfect, just few issues the searchbox, text size and search functions.

I really love xfce been using for 2 years really stable and mature desktop environment, take your time devs you guys done a great job.

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#11 2020-03-31 07:09:56

onkelho
Member
Registered: 2010-07-28
Posts: 21

Re: The Road to 4.16

I hope the developers can install a general switch in Apperiences or Window Manager tweaks, which enables the CSD header bars to be switched ON or OFF as desired.
For older people like me it is obvious that it is good as it is with the window decoration and the themes from old days. For younger people, it's probably more comfortable without a window frame. But no matter how, please give users the freedom to choose whether to use their beloved XFCE with a header bar or in the old WM style.

There is enough space on today's data carriers, so you don't have to have a HeaderBar computed every time you start the application.
It would be better to make this option selectable and to offer two basic themes: A (with CSD) and B (without CSD oldstyle)
selectable via WindowManager (-Tweaks)

ToZ I hope you can send this to the developers.

Thank's to all the work so hard on this times!

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#12 2020-04-07 15:58:55

NullRoute
Member
Registered: 2019-08-15
Posts: 10

Re: The Road to 4.16

Hey ToZ, why not move all development of XFCE to GitHub instead of GitLab? To me GitLab looks more like a bloatware in comparison. GitHub is more widely used and easier to learn even for newbies.

And on the sidenote, I really hope that XFCE don't go GNOME route with all the dialogs/titles. Because GNOME dialogs/titles just look horrible. Keep the old classic XFCE design, this is what makes XFCE standout. Those who prefer GNOME like design, can simply use GNOME isntead and not turn XFCE into another GNOME clone.

Last edited by NullRoute (2020-04-07 16:02:25)

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#13 2020-04-07 17:25:52

ToZ
Moderator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 7,672

Re: The Road to 4.16

NullRoute wrote:

Hey ToZ, why not move all development of XFCE to GitHub instead of GitLab? To me GitLab looks more like a bloatware in comparison. GitHub is more widely used and easier to learn even for newbies.

This a question for the main developers. You can reach them at the #xfce4-dev mailing list. That being said, I believe they are planning to migrate to gitlab.

And on the sidenote, I really hope that XFCE don't go GNOME route with all the dialogs/titles. Because GNOME dialogs/titles just look horrible. Keep the old classic XFCE design, this is what makes XFCE standout. Those who prefer GNOME like design, can simply use GNOME isntead and not turn XFCE into another GNOME clone.

The UI changes for 4.16 plan has not been changed.

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#14 2020-04-07 20:00:59

Jerry3904
Member
Registered: 2013-11-09
Posts: 819

Re: The Road to 4.16

Reading the tea leaves: the new catfish (1.4.12) gives the user the option of classic or modern, and I bet you a beer that is what is going to happen.


MX-19.4 (based on Debian Stable) with our flagship Xfce 4.16.
My little collection: Xfce Tidbits

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#15 2020-04-09 18:18:06

denyer
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2018-10-20
Posts: 60
Website

Re: The Road to 4.16

Sean's targeting a range of different desktop environments with his own software, so I'd tend to doubt it.

Also doubtful anyone's going to back down, irrespective of widespread criticism -- I think there'll be limited blogging or publicity and changes just arrive.

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#16 2020-04-15 06:27:45

aus9
Member
From: Perth, Australia
Registered: 2018-01-11
Posts: 20

Re: The Road to 4.16

Hi

Thanks for the roadmap page.

Do you think developers might consider moving to the meson build system.

I am having some issues on a distro that now builds things like glib and other building dependencies with meson. And meson apparently does not generate la files.

And even though I might try "--enable-static=no" the compiles are still looking for some la files.
I do have some la files, but not all....not asking for help with that just the roadmap question please.

thanks for reading

gordon

Last edited by aus9 (2020-04-15 06:29:13)

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#17 2020-09-14 12:34:49

adamitj
Member
Registered: 2020-09-14
Posts: 1

Re: The Road to 4.16

Hi!

I recognize all XFCE team members for the great work you're doing. Guys, you're AWESOME!

Speaking of roadmaps to new versions, did you ever though to implement something that is bothering me and at least a lot of people who loves XFCE? I'm talking about that SUPER/META/WINDOWS key to open Whisker menu by default.

KDE, Gnome, Cinnamon - and - even MS Windows uses this feature. I see many questions on the Internet which suggests to use ksuperkey and "miracle" and complex scripts (for the sake of regular users).

Those solutions may not work very well for all scenarios, when you want, for an example, to combine SUPER/META/WINDOWS keys with another key to open an application.

I'm a mediocre/poor programmer and don't know anything of C/C++ or GTK libs, but Is there any limitation that prevents this feature to be default in newer XFCE releases?

I remember in the years when I worked for a public university (from 2014 to 2018) and we had a lot of old computers running Windows XP/7 and we migrated to newer Debian releases using XFCE (for performance reasons). Teachers and students always complained of this feature because they are already used to that on other computers. My wife also disliked XFCE and I had to install Cinnamon only because of this feature on her old Sony Vaio laptop.

Again, you guys do a GREAT work, but I would love to see this implemented "by default" in XFCE like other interfaces. Thank you!

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#18 2020-09-14 13:17:08

denyer
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2018-10-20
Posts: 60
Website

Re: The Road to 4.16

adamitj wrote:

Those solutions may not work very well for all scenarios, when you want, for an example, to combine SUPER/META/WINDOWS keys with another key to open an application.

xcape works pretty well for this. Install it and add a startup script with:

xcape -e 'Super_L=Control_L|Escape;Super_R=Control_L|Escape'

I don't think Xfce developers or the developer of Whisker Menu read this official forum; you certainly don't see active engagement.

Last edited by denyer (2020-09-14 13:19:19)

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#19 2020-09-14 21:02:31

mint4all
Member
From: out of sight
Registered: 2018-08-21
Posts: 171

Re: The Road to 4.16

adamitj wrote:

Hi!

I recognize all XFCE team members for the great work you're doing. Guys, you're AWESOME!

Speaking of roadmaps to new versions, did you ever though to implement something that is bothering me and at least a lot of people who loves XFCE? I'm talking about that SUPER/META/WINDOWS key to open Whisker menu by default.

KDE, Gnome, Cinnamon - and - even MS Windows uses this feature. I see many questions on the Internet which suggests to use ksuperkey and "miracle" and complex scripts (for the sake of regular users).

Those solutions may not work very well for all scenarios, when you want, for an example, to combine SUPER/META/WINDOWS keys with another key to open an application.

I'm a mediocre/poor programmer and don't know anything of C/C++ or GTK libs, but Is there any limitation that prevents this feature to be default in newer XFCE releases?

I remember in the years when I worked for a public university (from 2014 to 2018) and we had a lot of old computers running Windows XP/7 and we migrated to newer Debian releases using XFCE (for performance reasons). Teachers and students always complained of this feature because they are already used to that on other computers. My wife also disliked XFCE and I had to install Cinnamon only because of this feature on her old Sony Vaio laptop.

Again, you guys do a GREAT work, but I would love to see this implemented "by default" in XFCE like other interfaces. Thank you!

Greetings! Just a few minutes ago, I booted up Manjaro's new 20.1 live .iso (with xfce 4.14), and found that the super/windows/meta key works just fine. Their devs even fixed the notorios "Super_L"-down problem where the whiskermenu pops up immediately, before the system sends the 'Key-up" sequence.

Much to my surprise though, I could not find that keyboard shortcut anywhere -- not in the "keyboard shortcuts" settings, nor in the setting editor's keyboard-shortcuts. So just to be sure, i went back to my Mint 20.0 system with xfce 4.14, and that sticky mapping of "Super-_L" is completely absent. Instead, Super_L+M is mapped to popup the whiskermenu by default. When i created a new shortcut just with Super_L by itself, the sticky behavior reappeared, and all the other Super_L+ mappings became inaccessible. Upshot: the Manjaro devs solved that problrm outside of xfce .... So if someone could give me some direction where else to look, i'd appreciate it very much.

Cheers, m4a


Linux Mint 18.3, 19.3, 20.0 -- xfce 4.12 & 4.14... Apple IMAC 11,3 -- Dell Precision T1500 Desktops -- Toshiba Satellite, Dell Inspiron & HP Pavilion Laptops -- Family & Community Support re. Linux

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#20 2021-03-05 23:21:52

Aravisian
Member
Registered: 2019-08-17
Posts: 409

Re: The Road to 4.16

So, I have tried out and tested the new XFCE 4.16. In spite of a scary start, I quickly found that the CSD settings were more optional and still allow some user choice. All in all, it's not too bad, really. A bit of a thorn, but not any kind of domination or control over the user.
But I also quickly noticed something else in this process. My custom Icon theme was no longer showing the custom Icons on several XFCE apps.
This is one of my bones to pick with Gnome. At the time of Gnome 2, Gnome was customizable, within FOSS and great. But new direction and a change of devs, Gnome 3 was slowly changed into MS. Not so great. The path Gnome took to taking control over the users desktop and dominating their Brand Image was slow and careful. At first, they retained some user choice- only to excuse each one they rescinded in each release that followed.
And to this day, in spite of signing a pledge to cease breaking themes, Gnome still changes identifiers and Icon Names, causing icon themes to to no longer fully work. Eventually, theme makers get fed up and stop making themes and the Gnome Devs are granted fuller control.
And now, we see this in XFCE. Same Strategy. Same MS Style Control.
So... for how long will the CSD's remain mildly somewhat optional? The XFCE devs were dishonest, claimed that they passed the CSD decision by a vote until they were outed by one of their developers that pointed out that "vote" was not passed around but contained within only those two.
You already broke our trust. You already claimed you know what we want, and what we don't, while you made your decisions based on self-driven direction, not user input. Now you repeat a decade Old Strategy Gnome used. We have the pattern, the template, visible right in front of us. We are supposed to not notice this trend, right? Or at least, not care? Maybe many won't care.
It flies in the face of Insult added to Injury, XFCE Devs.

I tried out XFCE4.16. It is not too bad... A bit of an unpleasant change... But one I can handle, right? How long will it stay somewhat tolerable? I would guess about Five Minutes until the next XFCE Update or Upgrade. When they take a Little more.
For now, I can still use older XFCE4 window borders. I guarantee you- they Will Take it away. Watch. It is only here temporarily, until we accept their slow, methodical changes over user-controlled-desktops to Developer-controlled-desktops.
Not Fooled.
Not. One. Bit.
100% thumbs down. XFCE 4.16 is 100% terrible, awful, no good - the product of User misdirection and Developer Desires. XFCE4.16 represents a change we have all already experienced and continue to experience with Gnome- we fled Gnome to XFCE only to get a Gnome Clone pushed onto us.

I do not congratulate the XFCE developers for telling us what we want, deceiving us and most importantly, for learning from Gnome to take a little bit slowly.
And as a Gnome clone- Why bother with it at all? As it continues this path, it will be a Lighter Weight Gnome that Canonical will simply answer to, spelling the much deserved demise of new-XFCE. Distros should seriously consider switching to LXQT for lightweight Desktops and Cinnamon for the heavier, without-being-a-Gnome-Clone environments and our Gnomish XFCE Developer friends may finally be alleviated of their oh-so-hated Workload.

Last edited by Aravisian (2021-03-05 23:43:36)

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#21 2021-03-22 19:37:58

dtd
Member
Registered: 2011-12-08
Posts: 60

Re: The Road to 4.16

That's why they call them personal computers. I recently updated my workstation and laptop to 4.16. The laptop was a from scratch so I had some configuring to do to get things the way I like them. My workstation just picked up the 4.14 setting. The only issue with the desktop was cut and paste in xterms, but that was my OS not xfce. I got my top wish-list item and background works to allow using images that do not stretch or zoom well.

More to the point release engineering was beyond anything I would expect. The power manager has some issues with the laptop and suspend and resume are still challenging. Those things may be better in the Linux world as Intel etc all make some effort to makes these things work there. We BSDers can pound sand. Mostly for me it's my head against the wall.

So for me, I like ti because it is very configurable, it works, and relative to KDE or Gnome (on FreeBSD) it is smaller and runs equally well on my oldest systems about as well as on the bigger/faster one.

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