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#1 2020-11-05 12:41:04

hoober
Member
Registered: 2020-11-05
Posts: 1

What is the point

These days, xfce4 is just as resource intensive and heavy as KDE.

Because it moved to something bloated and ugly like GTK 3 which was an insanely stupid move. So I ask again, now that the devs have done this and taken away xfce's only value..

What is the point of it existing???

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#2 2020-11-05 13:38:33

ToZ
Moderator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 7,124

Re: What is the point

hoober wrote:

These days, xfce4 is just as resource intensive and heavy as KDE.

Although KDE/Plasma has made some positive gains with respect to memory usage, be sure to compare apples with apples and not distro re-spins. My tests show that there is still about a 50-100MB difference on a base install (Arch Linux with default upstream packages). Distros tend to pad their implementations with features that they think their users will want, and this distorts the true upstream requirements. However, this is all moot in my opinion if you use a modern web browser - it will far exceed the memory requirements than any DE might have.

Because it moved to something bloated and ugly like GTK 3 which was an insanely stupid move. So I ask again, now that the devs have done this and taken away xfce's only value..

I disagree. The migration was necessary. GTK2 was deprecated and no longer being actively developed. The same reason that KDE/Plasma moves from QT4 to QT5 and soon to QT6. Also, "ugly" is a subjective term.

What is the point of it existing???

IMO: consistency, configurability and a relatively bug-free experience.

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#3 2020-11-05 14:42:40

Signy
Member
Registered: 2020-10-20
Posts: 35

Re: What is the point

I prefer XFCE because I am used to it:

  • I am used the way how are things done in XFCE (I mean settings). I have been using it at least since Xubuntu 12.

  • I have been maintaining the same visual and behaviour of my system for many years. With GTK3 I needed to improve my theme and icon set, but now it is OK again.

I am rather conservative, usually I do not like (nor need) new features, I do not like useless eyecandies etc.
When GTK3 started I tried distros with other desktop environments and went back to Xubuntu and XFCE.
Now when I am able to make GTK3 application look as if it was GTK2 (as close as possible, I still hate the hamburger button) and I am OK.

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#4 2020-11-08 16:19:58

denyer
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2018-10-20
Posts: 47
Website

Re: What is the point

hoober wrote:

These days, xfce4 is just as resource intensive and heavy as KDE.

Because it moved to something bloated and ugly like GTK 3 which was an insanely stupid move. So I ask again, now that the devs have done this and taken away xfce's only value..

What is the point of it existing???

Simplicity. Plasma is still working on balancing making a very configurable environment that doesn't stop users from customising, has good project governance that takes user needs/requests into consideration, etc, and helping users not be overwhelmed by choices. Until the CSD decision Xfce was also committed to consistency and being a traditional desktop environment.

I think a stronger criticism of Xfce is that key decisions come down to one or two people rather than being community-led, gathering evidence and usage stats etc.

Interesting read on healthy governance: https://pointieststick.com/2020/10/21/i … -planning/

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#5 2020-11-08 20:18:57

File Manager
Member
Registered: 2019-11-01
Posts: 19

Re: What is the point

Plasma panel needs to catch up to the customization options offered by other panels. smile

Panel is not very customizable compared to Xfce/MATE/LXQt:

No recolor setting
No transparency setting/slider
No background image setting

Why are icons included in Plasma panels? - What happened to system-wide icon theme?

Plasma systray/notification area isn't standard - can't handle applications like Xpad correctly.

Font rendering in GTK applications doesn't follow Qt/KDE settings, but it works the other way around in GTK desktops.

Very long "Windows-like" login experience.

If GTK4 means the End for traditional GTK desktops, then I think LXQt will become a nice option. Version 0.16 was just released. It's modular just like Xfce.

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#6 2020-11-09 17:31:00

denyer
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2018-10-20
Posts: 47
Website

Re: What is the point

I reckon we might see both more Qt uptake and some back-pedalling or forking when it comes to GTK. Developers of major applications will band together if they face significant difficulty with their existing work.

Panel is not very customizable compared to Xfce/MATE/LXQt:

No recolor setting
No transparency setting/slider
No background image setting

More scope for customisation but less easy for the end user. Specifically it's up to a theme what's offered, Plasma doesn't override this. I've removed the transparency in Breeze personally. I think the 'system' notification icons are the same, themed as part of the widget that provides the panel. A system-wide transparency override is being worked on (this is a fairly common question from users) but will require components and existing themes to be modified. https://phabricator.kde.org/D28627

Not noticed issues with items added to the notification area, fonts in the GTK apps I'm using or any particular login issues. Although there are moves to speed up initialisation by using systemd to run certain processes in parallel. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= … Technicals

There are definitely niggles with Plasma -- was having a conversation with someone the other day about accessibility* -- but a lot of active development that tends to iron them out.

*Incidentally GTK has removed the ability to make keyboard accelerator mnemonics always visible. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/484

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