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#1 2021-01-06 14:50:35

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Menu editor improvement

Menu editor layout is not very consistent with menu layout itself. There is a lot of room for improvement on this matter. Tia

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#2 2021-01-06 16:36:52

ToZ
Moderator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 7,760

Re: Menu editor improvement

Xfce proper does not have a menu editor. Its likely that the distribution you use has included one. In which case, you should follow up with the developers of the menu editor.

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#3 2021-01-07 09:07:55

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

Unfortunately, it's even worse! Xfce provides menu but it does not provide its own editor!?!?!? And let third party software to do that. Hellooooo 2021!

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#4 2021-01-07 11:29:32

ToZ
Moderator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 7,760

Re: Menu editor improvement

xfce-temporary wrote:

Unfortunately, it's even worse! Xfce provides menu but it does not provide its own editor!?!?!? And let third party software to do that. Hellooooo 2021!

What does this even mean?

Xfce is modular by design and allows for the integration of non-Xfce components. Many other DEs allow for this as well. In the case of editing menus, yes, other third party editors can be used. Why re-invent the wheel when time and energy can be focused elsewhere?

Its simply a matter of understanding which components you are using and directing your issues to the correct component. Barring that, you can always create a bug report with your distro and it will be properly filtered.

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#5 2021-01-07 16:12:12

CwF
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 134

Re: Menu editor improvement

xfce-temporary, I think you are looking at this wrong. Like a lego set that is a 'thing', you may find the only thing you can build with it, is what it already is because every piece is so special. XFCE is more of a generic many piece set that you can build many ways.
  There are some third party menu editors like 'menu' and 'menulibre', xfce helpers like xfce4-appmenu-plugin, xfce4-appfinder, xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin, and the internal 'Applications Menu'. You could build your own path with various docks or a simplice style verve launcher, or an expanding launcher panel based setup.

You didn't say what you'd like to correct. The only real lack of edit ability is in 'top-level' arrangement that I think belongs in the general 'Settings Editor' where a few settings need to be added. Is this where your criticism is targeted? Past that there is more than one path to choose in 'Applications', including not using it at all. Is it here in the lower levels you want addressed?

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#6 2021-01-08 11:04:59

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

ToZ wrote:

Why re-invent the wheel when time and energy can be focused elsewhere?

Scientifically and ideally, I totally agree with you! But if you look around you, you will see that "wheel re-invention" has already taken billions of times. Just visit distrowatch to see how many distributions exists. Just check how many DE exists! Bbbrrrr!!! Re-invention is the second nature of middle and small minds! Great minds never deals with re-inventions because for them the "problem" is solved and, I repeat "and", WELL-SOLVED. They go around for new "adventures" and "findings". There is not "re-invention" when all are under "one Sun". So, your argument about re-invention is unfortunately being sent to the deepest well!

ToZ wrote:

Its simply a matter of understanding which components you are using and directing your issues to the correct component.

The distribution which I checked comes with "MenuLibre" which, after some search, is a project of bluesabre.org of which the developer/maintainer is also a core developer of Xfce. So, the situation is already "intertwined". big_smile So, in a few words, either I come here or go to his repository is essentially the same thing.

Anyway, it seems from https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=52392#p52392 that there is already a concern about specific menu editor.

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#7 2021-01-08 11:19:29

ToZ
Moderator
From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-02
Posts: 7,760

Re: Menu editor improvement

The point remains: if you are looking to make suggestions to fix menulibre or to report bugs, you need to make them in the appropriate place. Here is the menulibre github page.

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#8 2021-01-08 11:34:56

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

CwF wrote:

I think you are looking at this wrong. Like a lego set that is a 'thing', you may find the only thing you can build with it, is what it already is because every piece is so special. XFCE is more of a generic many piece set that you can build many ways.

Oohhh! So, I have to search each time who is responsible for this one thing! Imagine that happens to your pc/laptop. You get one and you find a "problem" in one of its pieces. So, you refer that to the pc manufactures/logo builder and you get the response "Ahh this component is manufactured by that Asian company. Please report the issue directly to it".

CwF wrote:

There are some third party menu editors like 'menu' and 'menulibre', xfce helpers like xfce4-appmenu-plugin, xfce4-appfinder, xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin, and the internal 'Applications Menu'. You could build your own path with various docks or a simplice style verve launcher, or an expanding launcher panel based setup.

In addition, I finally get the impression that XFCE is not a DE but a framework (generic many pieces set) to build a DE. In that case, advertising Xfce as a DE in the web page is TOTALLY MISLEADING. It should declare that Xfce is a framework( or whatever else you can name it) based on which you can (have to spend time to) build a DE.

CwF wrote:

You didn't say what you'd like to correct.

I wrote about inconsistencies between "menulibre" and actual menu layouts. "menulibre" shows entities that do not exist in menu applications which confused me.

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#9 2021-01-08 11:37:01

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

ToZ wrote:

The point remains: if you are looking to make suggestions to fix menulibre or to report bugs, you need to make them in the appropriate place. Here is the menulibre github page.

Oh, thanks a lot for the info!

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#10 2021-01-08 22:59:20

thinkpadx
Member
Registered: 2020-09-06
Posts: 33

Re: Menu editor improvement

seems like you do not know what you are talking about and also puttinf the blame on the wong thing/people/dynamic.

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#11 2021-01-09 14:32:50

peter.48
Member
Registered: 2017-01-31
Posts: 81

Re: Menu editor improvement

@xfce-temporary

If you don't like Menulibre, try Alacarte (I use it and I haven't found any defects).
Xfce is how it is, and or you accept it or not, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean you have to be arrogant.

And if you are so bothered by the lack of xfce own menu editor, enter the team and write one...(or take the trouble to learn to edit menu: https://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu)

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#12 2021-01-09 15:21:22

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

peter.48 wrote:

If you don't like Menulibre, try Alacarte (I use it and I haven't found any defects).

Perfect, thanks a lot for the info. I shall try and hope you are right.

peter.48 wrote:

Xfce is how it is, and or you accept it or not, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean you have to be arrogant.

No, I have not been arrogant at all. A little bit irritant and annoying, yes.

peter.48 wrote:

And if you are so bothered by the lack of xfce own menu editor, enter the team and write one...

Are you ASKING me to re-invent the wheel??!!! When time and energy can be focused elsewhere??!!! @ToZ Now, he is all yours! big_smile

peter.48 wrote:

(or take the trouble to learn to edit menu: https://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu)

!!!2021!!!

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#13 2021-01-09 15:28:51

thinkpadx
Member
Registered: 2020-09-06
Posts: 33

Re: Menu editor improvement

sounds like a bit of a troll.

not reinventing the whell - just being creative.  i WISH i knew more about linux and coding - but i don;t and i have run linux exclusivey for over 15 yrs.  still know squat!  but realistic as to what is being offered.

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#14 2021-01-09 16:30:32

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

thinkpadx wrote:

seems like you do not know what you are talking about and also puttinf the blame on the wong thing/people/dynamic.

You are very right for the first part! I could never imagine that menu writing is part of the main DE project but the menu editing was left to be orphaned and adopted by 3rd parties, i.e. to be out of the main project! I really have to work very hard to understand what is common logic, devs logic, integrated/complete DE and its limits, DE frameworks, etc. wink

As regards the second part, you are wrong. I do not really blame anyone, anything, dynamic. Just totally different logic, mentalities and temperaments! "You bring a child in the life; you (may) feed it, you (may) grow it and also you (may) let, for some reasons, other people to dress it!"

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#15 2021-01-09 17:16:59

denyer
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2018-10-20
Posts: 60
Website

Re: Menu editor improvement

The short answer is that Xfce has virtually no developer resource compared to eg the Mint desktop environments (Cinnamon/MATE) or Gnome or Plasma, so some components are from other projects.

I generally found it easier to edit the shortcuts in ~/.local/share/applications than use Menulibre, and still do that in other desktop environments. The use of standard categories in most Linux DE application menus (Graphics, Internet, etc) rather than user-defined folders is a bit restrictive and based on years of cruft resulting in things like the menu names tending not to be the category names. Menu editors are a shiv to hide that from users.

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#16 2021-01-09 18:23:41

MrEen
Member
Registered: 2019-04-19
Posts: 295

Re: Menu editor improvement

denyer wrote:

I generally found it easier to edit the shortcuts in ~/.local/share/applications than use Menulibre, and still do that in other desktop environments.

Same here.

When I first started using Linux I found this page quite helpful on this subject: https://www.internalpointers.com/post/a … -xfce-menu

This one confused me back then, but does have more info: https://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu

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#17 2021-01-09 23:52:27

thinkpadx
Member
Registered: 2020-09-06
Posts: 33

Re: Menu editor improvement

xfce temp -   did you give MX linux xfce version a try.  that stuff seems built in fo you.  i have been running mx since version 18 and have notta for issues.  ran 'e' for many years prior.


p.s. in the mx fluxbox version you will have to edit cofig files which is beyond me asu such.  just so you know.  you will run into the same ssues. so try the mx xfce 19 version.


fwiw

Last edited by thinkpadx (2021-01-09 23:54:16)

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#18 2021-01-10 04:47:12

CwF
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 134

Re: Menu editor improvement

So after all that, it's obvious, XFCE4 is fantastic! There must be a reason it's always a choice. Like debian proper, it's what you make it, and these are the most common ingredients if you let somebody else make it for you...which many should do.

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#19 2021-01-10 12:55:01

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

denyer wrote:

The short answer is that Xfce has virtually no developer resource

Fully understood and respected! But I do not think that in-house "Image Viewer", "Xfburn" and "Text Editor" are more essential than an integrated menu editor. It's MHO. Resources only do not bring and/or mean quality!

denyer wrote:

compared to eg the Mint desktop environments (Cinnamon/MATE) or Gnome or Plasma, so some components are from other projects.

As regards Cinnamon, you have just scratched a deep and wide wound; already bleeding...! wink As regards, Gnome and Plasma are untrustworthy to me! They both have done once a huge turn hanging UI in the name of progress.

DE is not an application which gives/bring value. It just gives an initial convenience and grace. Make one million changes background, but do not touch/break the established UI/UX. Like kernel, make one billion changes but do not break user space!

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#20 2021-01-10 13:03:01

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

MrEen wrote:

When I first started using Linux I found this page quite helpful on this subject: https://www.internalpointers.com/post/a … -xfce-menu ...

And when you bought your new car, you read the manual how to start the engine or adjust the mirrors! If you really need a manual, then I advise you better think to buy a donkey instead! wink I am teasing you big_smile

Last edited by xfce-temporary (2021-01-10 13:04:03)

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#21 2021-01-10 13:25:12

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

CwF wrote:

So after all that, it's obvious, XFCE4 is fantastic!

It may be become when the other 3rd party "lego"/"component" which is responsible for internet connections gives the opportunity to create a WiFi hotspot in two (2) clicks like in Plasma (one click to open the connections and one more to create a new hotspot)! Until that holy moment, be humble and pray for it to be done quickly! wink smile

CwF wrote:

... Like debian proper, it's what you make it, and ...

Debian = RESPECT, ROCK!!!

I only hope that Xfce5 will not break/destroy the established and known UI/UX; like Gnome, KDE, Firefox (bbrrrrr) did once in the past!

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#22 2021-01-10 15:06:31

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

thinkpadx wrote:

xfce temp -   did you give MX linux xfce version a try...

As regards the MX Menu editor, it is not obvious at all how one (if) can add categories! For this reason (and some others), MX is OUT of any discussion for me to trust it as infrastructure for the next 5 years. To give you to understand, in a family, grandparents and parents give the stability, safety and security to the environment where children grow playing and making mischief. ΜΧ is still an immature parent, not to say a child. wink Debian is of course the grandparent! Xfce maybe a parent wink

thinkpadx wrote:

p.s. in the mx fluxbox version ...

Fluxbox??!!! I think it's time to go back to PC-DOS. What a robust DOS! What an era! Then, one bug was enough to make a U student feel shame and another one to be proud that found a bug! Nowadays, hooray "New release fixes 150 bugs"! Hooray! "Next, new release fixes another 150 bugs". These bugs are endless... smile

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#23 2021-01-10 15:26:28

thinkpadx
Member
Registered: 2020-09-06
Posts: 33

Re: Menu editor improvement

i tired.  MX is stable and mature and in development by a large and great team.  i am so picky but i do not see anything wrong with mx and it has long term use too. 

so i am done trying to help you.  seems like you should build your own and stop the bitching.  whining, and condescension.  holy SH!t!!!

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#24 2021-01-10 15:27:48

thinkpadx
Member
Registered: 2020-09-06
Posts: 33

Re: Menu editor improvement

maybe try windows or a mac.

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#25 2021-01-10 15:50:32

xfce-temporary
Member
Registered: 2021-01-06
Posts: 14

Re: Menu editor improvement

thinkpadx wrote:

i tired.  MX is stable and mature and in development by a large and great team.  i am so picky but i do not see anything wrong with mx and it has long term use too.

Perhaps, you are blind, too. I wrote that in MX Menu editor, it is not obvious at all how one (if) can add categories! Your effort to advertise MX unfortunately failed!

snip

Edit: snipped disrespectful comment

Last edited by ToZ (2021-01-10 16:17:50)

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