[xubuntu 24.04] TWICE now, Thunar has wrecked stuff

ddwmusic · 2025-01-25 08:51:36

Last week, I installed xubuntu 24.04 (and put Ubuntu Studio packages on top of it).

I have a Western Digital external drive (ntfs) where I backed up documents, photos etc. from my previous Ubuntu system (22.04).

Twice, while reading files from this drive -- not writing, reading -- the system has completely locked up to the extent that not even ctrl-alt-function keys could drop out to a terminal.

The first time, the only bad thing that happened is that the drive's "dirty" flag had gotten set -- recovered by chkdsk on a Windows 11 machine. No particular harm done, except for unnecessary terror over potentially lost data.

The second time, the drive was fine but somehow, when I forced power-off, some keyboard entry flags (sticky something or other?) got set seemingly at hardware level, because, after rebooting, there were some characters in my password that could not be typed. Now this is a "what-the------"... I did eventually recover by booting into the USB stick that I used to install the system -- where the same keys were still inoperable! (why does a setting like this persist through reboots? That's insane) -- and then mashing mod keys until something happened (seemed like Super did the trick), and then suddenly the keys could be typed again into a terminal window... and fortunately this also persisted into the next reboot, and then I was able to login again. Otherwise I'd have had to reinstall everything.

Seriously... one second I'm scrolling through a folder of photos and the next I'm like, well, this system looks like it could be dead.

Questions, then:

1. What is wrong with Thunar that it's taking down my system when accessing this volume? (Seems related to reading over a large number of small files in a short period of time -- probably building thumbnails in the second case -- and the first was copying a directory onto the new system, again reading a lot of short files.)

2. Can anyone recommend an alternative file browser that does not have this bug?

3. Any other stability recommendations for dealing with NTFS volumes? (There are benefits to keeping this backup disk as NTFS -- ability to take large files to non-Linux computers -- but... in a decade and a half of using Linux daily, I've never seen this. Not quite sure what to make of it.)

hjh

eriefisher · 2025-01-25 11:49:27

It's possible but not likely to be the fault of Thunar. Is it possible this drive was flagged "fastboot" when it was on a MS Windows machine? Do you actually use it on windows? Have you checked the logs to see what may have happened?

ddwmusic · 2025-01-25 14:52:27

eriefisher wrote:

It's possible but not likely to be the fault of Thunar. Is it possible this drive was flagged "fastboot" when it was on a MS Windows machine? Do you actually use it on windows?

This, I'm not sure.

I only ever plugged it into a Windows machine to chkdsk (the drive is only 2-3 months old). As of the first occurrence, I had never plugged it into a Windows machine.

Have you checked the logs to see what may have happened?

journalctl reports that the thumbnailer started and then there's a reboot (consistent with my recollection).

Jan 25 16:11:51 dlm-tb udisksd[1070]: Mounted /dev/sda1 at /media/dlm/Elements SE on behalf of uid 1000
Jan 25 16:12:31 dlm-tb dbus-daemon[2039]: [session uid=1000 pid=2039] Activating via systemd: service name='org.freedesktop.thumbnails.Thumbnailer1' unit='tumblerd.service' requested by ':1.34' (uid=1000 pid=2370 comm="Thunar --daemon" label="unconfined")
Jan 25 16:12:31 dlm-tb systemd[1999]: Starting tumblerd.service - Thumbnailing service...
Jan 25 16:12:31 dlm-tb dbus-daemon[2039]: [session uid=1000 pid=2039] Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.thumbnails.Thumbnailer1'
Jan 25 16:12:31 dlm-tb systemd[1999]: Started tumblerd.service - Thumbnailing service.
-- Boot a04bd62f1e58469dbaaa5f5a42e7de1c --
Jan 25 16:14:32 dlm-tb kernel: Linux version 6.8.0-51-lowlatency (buildd@lcy02-amd64-020) (x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc-13 (Ubuntu 13.3.0-6ubuntu2~24.04) 13.3.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Ubuntu) 2.42) #52.1-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Sat Dec  7 23:21:04 UTC 2024 (Ubuntu 6.8.0-51.52.1-lowlatency 6.8.12)

syslog around the same time hasn't much more (I'll start earlier, with the whole mounting process):

2025-01-25T16:11:36.902302+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: usb 4-1: new SuperSpeed USB device number 5 using xhci_hcd
2025-01-25T16:11:36.915320+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: usb 4-1: New USB device found, idVendor=1058, idProduct=2623, bcdDevice=10.34
2025-01-25T16:11:36.915374+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: usb 4-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
2025-01-25T16:11:36.915380+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: usb 4-1: Product: Elements SE 2623
2025-01-25T16:11:36.915384+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: usb 4-1: Manufacturer: Western Digital
2025-01-25T16:11:36.915386+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: usb 4-1: SerialNumber: 575833324136344D374C4434
2025-01-25T16:11:36.918271+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: usb-storage 4-1:1.0: USB Mass Storage device detected
2025-01-25T16:11:36.921153+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: scsi host0: usb-storage 4-1:1.0
2025-01-25T16:11:36.936944+08:00 dlm-tb mtp-probe: checking bus 4, device 5: "/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/usb4/4-1"
2025-01-25T16:11:36.937530+08:00 dlm-tb mtp-probe: bus: 4, device: 5 was not an MTP device
2025-01-25T16:11:36.968851+08:00 dlm-tb mtp-probe: checking bus 4, device 5: "/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/usb4/4-1"
2025-01-25T16:11:36.968930+08:00 dlm-tb mtp-probe: bus: 4, device: 5 was not an MTP device
2025-01-25T16:11:36.981387+08:00 dlm-tb dbus-daemon[2039]: [session uid=1000 pid=2039] Activating service name='org.xfce.Xfconf' requested by ':1.953' (uid=1000 pid=42575 comm="thunar-volman --device-added /sys/devices/pci0000:" label="unconfined")
2025-01-25T16:11:36.986817+08:00 dlm-tb dbus-daemon[2039]: [session uid=1000 pid=2039] Successfully activated service 'org.xfce.Xfconf'
2025-01-25T16:11:37.934203+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: scsi 0:0:0:0: Direct-Access     WD       Elements SE 2623 1034 PQ: 0 ANSI: 6
2025-01-25T16:11:37.935150+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: scsi 0:0:0:1: Enclosure         WD       SES Device       1034 PQ: 0 ANSI: 6
2025-01-25T16:11:37.941169+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: sd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg0 type 0
2025-01-25T16:11:37.941199+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: ses 0:0:0:1: Attached Enclosure device
2025-01-25T16:11:37.941202+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: ses 0:0:0:1: Attached scsi generic sg1 type 13
2025-01-25T16:11:37.943146+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Spinning up disk...
2025-01-25T16:11:41.852189+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: ses 0:0:0:1: Wrong diagnostic page; asked for 1 got 8
2025-01-25T16:11:41.852242+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: ses 0:0:0:1: Failed to get diagnostic page 0x1
2025-01-25T16:11:41.852247+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: ses 0:0:0:1: Failed to bind enclosure -19
2025-01-25T16:11:42.860304+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: .ready
2025-01-25T16:11:42.961316+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 3906963456 512-byte logical blocks: (2.00 TB/1.82 TiB)
2025-01-25T16:11:42.963292+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off
2025-01-25T16:11:42.963333+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 47 00 10 08
2025-01-25T16:11:42.963339+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] No Caching mode page found
2025-01-25T16:11:42.963343+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Assuming drive cache: write through
2025-01-25T16:11:42.975212+08:00 dlm-tb kernel:  sda: sda1
2025-01-25T16:11:42.976158+08:00 dlm-tb kernel: sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI disk
2025-01-25T16:11:43.134665+08:00 dlm-tb (udev-worker)[42614]: sda: Process '/usr/bin/unshare -m /usr/bin/snap auto-import --mount=/dev/sda' failed with exit code 1.
2025-01-25T16:11:43.149540+08:00 dlm-tb udisksd[1070]: Error probing device: Error sending ATA command IDENTIFY DEVICE to '/dev/sda': Unexpected sense data returned:#0120000: f0 00 01 00  00 00 00 0a  00 00 00 00  00 1d 00 00    ................#0120010: 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00    ................#012 (g-io-error-quark, 0)
2025-01-25T16:11:43.283793+08:00 dlm-tb (udev-worker)[42614]: sda1: Process '/usr/bin/unshare -m /usr/bin/snap auto-import --mount=/dev/sda1' failed with exit code 1.
2025-01-25T16:11:51.822473+08:00 dlm-tb udisksd[1070]: Mounted /dev/sda1 at /media/dlm/Elements SE on behalf of uid 1000
2025-01-25T16:12:31.835218+08:00 dlm-tb dbus-daemon[2039]: [session uid=1000 pid=2039] Activating via systemd: service name='org.freedesktop.thumbnails.Thumbnailer1' unit='tumblerd.service' requested by ':1.34' (uid=1000 pid=2370 comm="Thunar --daemon" label="unconfined")
2025-01-25T16:12:31.846696+08:00 dlm-tb systemd[1999]: Starting tumblerd.service - Thumbnailing service...
2025-01-25T16:12:31.890159+08:00 dlm-tb dbus-daemon[2039]: [session uid=1000 pid=2039] Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.thumbnails.Thumbnailer1'
2025-01-25T16:12:31.890270+08:00 dlm-tb systemd[1999]: Started tumblerd.service - Thumbnailing service.

... gap here when it died...

2025-01-25T16:14:33.609196+08:00 dlm-tb systemd-modules-load[481]: Inserted module 'lp'
2025-01-25T16:14:33.609247+08:00 dlm-tb systemd-modules-load[481]: Inserted module 'ppdev'
2025-01-25T16:14:33.609254+08:00 dlm-tb systemd-modules-load[481]: Inserted module 'parport_pc'

hjh

Last edited by ddwmusic (2025-01-25 14:53:39)

eriefisher · 2025-01-25 16:00:02

There are some "Fails" posted there before Tumbler or Thunar get involved. I don't know enough about it though to know if they pose a problem or cause what you describe. I find it curious though that it's being seen as /dev/sda?? Is there a reason you chose ntfs? For cross OS compatibility I would have chosen exFat myself.

ddwmusic · 2025-01-26 02:39:51

eriefisher wrote:

There are some "Fails" posted there before Tumbler or Thunar get involved.

Hm, per https://www.linuxquestions.org/question … ost6192045 it seems that errors may be logged when the OS tries operations on the disk before it has spun up to operating speed.

I find it curious though that it's being seen as /dev/sda??

The root volume is /dev/nvme0n1p2 on this system. I haven't changed any settings related to this. It's not a dual-boot system, if that's relevant.

Is there a reason you chose ntfs?

Not in particular -- I just didn't reformat the drive.

I've been using NTFS-formatted drives for backups and archives for a decade and a half. While I've had to chkdsk occasionally after a glitch (and recovery was always successful), I've never had the entire system lock up. Nothing in that history suggests that NTFS is this dangerous.

This machine is a couple of years old. Until last week, I was running 22.04 and never had fatal lockups when using this drive. Since upgrading to 24.04, it happened twice. That's why I suspect 24.04.

hjh

eriefisher · 2025-01-26 11:11:48

I was running 22.04 and never had fatal lockups when using this drive. Since upgrading to 24.04, it happened twice. That's why I suspect 24.04.

I'm not a Ubuntu guy, not for a very, very long time. It may be worth check on the Ubuntu forums to see if anybody else is having similar issues. Maybe find out what changed in the upgrade.

I played with Ubuntu and derivatives for a while 20 years ago when it first released. I gave up after a few releases due to the constant issues after an upgrade. I found it way too buggy and problematic. From some recent reports it seem it still leans that way. I now run Siduction/Debian Sid. It upgrades almost daily and the only time I have to install/reinstall was for new hardware.

k3dAR · 2025-01-26 15:02:21

eriefisher wrote:

[...]Ubuntu and derivatives[...] issues after an upgrade
I now run Siduction/Debian Sid. It upgrades almost daily and the only time I have to install/reinstall was for new hardware.

BTW: my Xubuntu installed as 14.04 on Thinkpad T420s then upgraded ->16.04->18.04->20.04->22.04->24.04,
and also changed HW under it T420s->T430s->T480 ;-)

Anyway i don't use NTFS on removable drive, but ext4 or exfat, so not having info about Thunar in 24.04 and NTFS stability, but without NTFS i not have problem with Thunar stock version in Xubuntu 24.04 and not with Thunar 4.20 fro xubuntu-dev PPA in Xubuntu 24.04

ToZ · 2025-01-26 15:35:06

ddwmusic wrote:

Hm, per https://www.linuxquestions.org/question … ost6192045 it seems that errors may be logged when the OS tries operations on the disk before it has spun up to operating speed.

Are you using the kernel built-in ntfs driver or the newer ntfs-3g driver?

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#1 2025-01-25 08:51:36

[xubuntu 24.04] TWICE now, Thunar has wrecked stuff

#2 2025-01-25 11:49:27

Re: [xubuntu 24.04] TWICE now, Thunar has wrecked stuff

#3 2025-01-25 14:52:27

Re: [xubuntu 24.04] TWICE now, Thunar has wrecked stuff

#4 2025-01-25 16:00:02

Re: [xubuntu 24.04] TWICE now, Thunar has wrecked stuff

#5 2025-01-26 02:39:51

Re: [xubuntu 24.04] TWICE now, Thunar has wrecked stuff

#6 2025-01-26 11:11:48

Re: [xubuntu 24.04] TWICE now, Thunar has wrecked stuff

#7 2025-01-26 15:02:21

Re: [xubuntu 24.04] TWICE now, Thunar has wrecked stuff

#8 2025-01-26 15:35:06

Re: [xubuntu 24.04] TWICE now, Thunar has wrecked stuff

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