Xfce Forum

KitchM

Member

Registered: 2009-08-15

Posts: 393

Wayland on 2-in-1 Laptop?

My ThinkPad Yoga has a lot of features I wish to use, including tablet mode.  I am currently using Debian 12 with Xfce 4.18 in the standard install.  However, there is no screen rotation or other features associated with a 2-in-1.  (Sadly everything works in Windows 10 on this dual-boot system.)

Debian seems to suggest using Wayland.  I like Xfce a great deal and am familiar with it.  Hate rock the boat.

What is the current status of switching from X11 to Wayland within the Xfce family?

@ToZ, any expert advice?

Thank you.

Last edited by KitchM (2025-06-11 17:13:46)

eriefisher

Wanderer

From: ON, Canada

Registered: 2008-10-25

Posts: 777

Re: Wayland on 2-in-1 Laptop?

I've never attempted it as I don't have a device but I know it's possible. A quick search show this:

xfce4 tablet mode

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I AM CANADIAN!
Siduction
Debian Sid
Xfce 4.20 with Wayland/Labwc

KitchM

Member

Registered: 2009-08-15

Posts: 393

Re: Wayland on 2-in-1 Laptop?

Thank you.  I found a lot of similar, but nothing concrete or up-to-date  But I do understand the programming focus being difficult to change sometimes.  Having to start from scratch is extremely hard to accept.

I'm leaning toward another DE for that purpose instead of changing the windowing protocol, although I'm not yet convinced of which option is better.  Linux is so modular that there are certain combinations which might help solve a problem if we try some different combos.

mint4all

Member

From: off the map

Registered: 2018-08-21

Posts: 295

Re: Wayland on 2-in-1 Laptop?

My ThinkPad Yoga has a lot of features I wish to use, including tablet mode.  I am currently using Debian 12 with Xfce 4.18 in the standard install.  However, there is no screen rotation or other features associated with a 2-in-1.  (Sadly everything works in Windows 10 on this dual-boot system.)

Debian seems to suggest using Wayland.  I like Xfce a great deal and am familiar with it.  Hate rock the boat.

What is the current status of switching from X11 to Wayland within the Xfce family?

@ToZ, any expert advice?

Thank you.

Greetings to you! About a year ago I replaced my two ancient Dell and Apple desktops with Lenovo's 16" "Yoga" 2-in-1 laptops. I am very happy using them in tent-mode, desktop-like, with Logitech's wireless keyboard+mouse combo. Though the touchscreen & -pad  work just fine, I would like to use all the typical touch-gestures occasionally when I use my Yoga's as tablets. But I am not willing to switch to another DE -- I am way to happy with XFCE. Here's an interesting touch-addon I came across: https://github.com/JoseExposito/touchegg#readme ... Have you explored this?

Cheers, m4a

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Linux Mint 21.3 -- xfce 4.18 ... Apple iMAC -- Lenovo, Dell, HP Desktops and Laptops -- Family & Community Support

KitchM

Member

Registered: 2009-08-15

Posts: 393

Re: Wayland on 2-in-1 Laptop?

Thank you for that bit of information.  However, I believe it to be unnecessary within the context of what is supposed to be available now.  The whole issue of what some may call 'tablet mode' is that these gestures are to be part of the built-in function.  Don't you agree?

mint4all

Member

From: off the map

Registered: 2018-08-21

Posts: 295

Re: Wayland on 2-in-1 Laptop?

Thank you for that bit of information.  However, I believe it to be unnecessary within the context of what is supposed to be available now.  The whole issue of what some may call 'tablet mode' is that these gestures are to be part of the built-in function.  Don't you agree?

Hmmm ...Interesting discussion re. "built-in function", so let's explore this a bit more.  Lenovo licensed Windows-10 (along with its full-blown touch-gesture support) from Microsoft, then added that license fee to the laptop's price which you paid for. By comparison, the Linux kernel, afaik, added touch-support quite a while ago, in the 3.x-kernel series, but providing touch-gesture support (translating the kernel's signals to the desktop environment) was left up to the DE-developers. Some DEs implemented it, some (like XFCE) did not; however, XFCE-devs left their API open for add-ons to service those needs ... some add-ons do it well, some don't -- btw. that's the beauty (and bane) of Linux-based DEs, having a choice.

Ultimately, I agree with you that it ought to be built-in. Will wayland be the solution? Idk, but for now, XFCE is only partially there (like screen rotation), and the other functions require add-ons (like onboard, and touchegg/touche). Besides, there's a whole slew of things that require UX-redesign to fully support tablets (menus, tooltips etc.) that -- right now -- are just too awkward to use in tablet mode.

Cheers, m4a

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Linux Mint 21.3 -- xfce 4.18 ... Apple iMAC -- Lenovo, Dell, HP Desktops and Laptops -- Family & Community Support

KitchM

Member

Registered: 2009-08-15

Posts: 393

Re: Wayland on 2-in-1 Laptop?

Good insight; thanks.

I would never support msoft directly.  I bought refurb.  Just tried rotation again and no go.  I may have to wait for a later version of Debian with an upgraded Xfce version.  On the other hand, that is no guarantee that the rotation and other things will work even then.  So I'm back to the original options of new DE and/or Wayland.

I was just writing an article regarding the huge variety offered by going with Linux.  The amount of customization is a real big deal with all the modularity it offers.  Never going back.

Just as a side issue; there is a bit of a problem in the industry in programmers choosing language environments which do not scale well into future ways of doing things.  This often hangs them up, and everyone gets caught in the incompatibility.  But that's just how it is.

Thanks again.

eriefisher

Wanderer

From: ON, Canada

Registered: 2008-10-25

Posts: 777

Re: Wayland on 2-in-1 Laptop?

From the Debian wiki.

https://wiki.debian.org/TabletAndTouchScreen

From the Arch wiki.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Tablet_PC

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I AM CANADIAN!
Siduction
Debian Sid
Xfce 4.20 with Wayland/Labwc

KitchM

Member

Registered: 2009-08-15

Posts: 393

Re: Wayland on 2-in-1 Laptop?

Thank you for that.

Yes, I have already read those things, and that is why Wayland was the focus of this posting.  If Xfce cannot work with Wayland, then the benefits of Xfce will not be available to me upon switching to Wayland.

The bottom line appears to be that it seems imperative that Wayland be implemented to get the screen rotation (among other things) to work.  Am I wrong there?

KitchM

Member

Registered: 2009-08-15

Posts: 393

Re: Wayland on 2-in-1 Laptop?

Okay, I just wanted to make a summary of what I found on this subject.  It appears that Wayland is a substitute for X11.  However, it is a very stripped-down protocol with little support at this point in time.  The necessary support to make it as useful as the alternative is very complex and detailed, and so it is unreasonable to expect any significant changes very soon.

And all this leads back to the original reason for my concern on the subject.  Evidently, there is much confusion on the subject and that has lead to misleading statements.

When dealing with a 2-in-1 convertible laptop, the features one desires to have available on the unit when in tablet mode has not been standardized, at least away from the windows platform.  But the solution in the Linux arena is not necessarily Wayland, but rather simple options made available within the confines of X11 at this time.  It is possible to have all the functionality, but it is difficult to obtain.  This is because of lack of standards, as always, and a lack of time and effort by programmers in our arena.

My solution is to use what I have readily available at this point in time and not expect too much.  Yes, these things should be available at this point in time.  But what do you want for free?

I hope this helps the next person who may be forced to deal with this problem.