ERROR/BUG: wiki.xfce.org themes location error

daffyduck · 2026-06-27 12:02:17

https://wiki.xfce.org/howto/xfwm4_theme
last modified 2025

It claims:

===================================================
In Xfwm4, desktop themes are searched for in the following directories:
User's home directory
''~/.themes/“
For example: ”/home/jane_doe/.themes/b5/xfwm4“
System's shared data directory “$XDG_DATA_DIRS/themes”
==========================================================

Error 1:
Unfortunately, "$XDG_DATA_DIRS/themes" is nonsensical, because $XDG_DATA_DIRS is not a single directory. Also using a singular noun "directory" there is misleading.

Omission 1:
It fails to mention that "~/.themes/" location is largely obsolete and not recommended anymore.

That essentially leaves me with no valid location to put the theme in. But...

Possible Bug 1:
On my system, "~/.local/share/themes" works, but it is NOT part of the $XDG_DATA_DIRS.
So, someone has cleverly hardcoded a sensible location into XFCE, so that it works properly?
I'm on Linux Mint, so perhaps they changed it? Or, Ubuntu did? I somehow doubt.

So, does "~/.local/share/themes" work on vanilla XFCE, or not?
And, if it does work, why is that not mentioned in the docs?
Of course, the freedesktop "$XDG_DATA_DIRS" spec is insanely bad, by I digress.

Consequently:
I don't want to recommend to users to put the theme in obsolete "~/.themes/"
And, there is obviously no other specifiable location that works, except perhaps "~/.local/share/themes", if it works reliably.
So, what should I do? Just please, do not recommend "~/.themes/"
What's going on there?

JmaCWQ · 2026-06-27 12:41:24

Where'd the info come from that "~/.themes/" is obsolete and not recommended?

daffyduck · 2026-06-27 12:56:36

JmaCWQ wrote:

Where'd the info come from that "~/.themes/" is obsolete and not recommended?

https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/DesktopThemeSpec/

Quote:
---------------------------------------------
By default, applications should look for them in $HOME/.themes (for backwards compatibility) and $XDG_DATA_DIRS/themes
---------------------------------------------

I interpret the wording "for backwards compatibility" as "legacy / not recommended"

I think you are going to say "just put it in ~/.themes"
But, I need you to explicitly confirm that, so that it is not my fault when I recommend it, i.e. I do not want anyone to blame me for that mess.

Also notice:
- that spec is a draft (says so in the title)
- that spec was last edited 2021, so obviously noone is working on it, nor has anyone bothered to accept it in the last 5 years.
I recommend: burn that spec. Specify your own variable "$COMMON_USERDATA_PATH", or "$COMMON_LOCAL_SHARE_PATH" that contains a single user-writable directory, i.e. the recommended replacement path, typically equal to "~/.local/share", which is easily specifiable and easily comprehensible by users.

JmaCWQ · 2026-06-27 14:13:58

Not your fault?
I'm not sure what you're getting at or why you'd be paranoid about something being your fault because a spec hasn't been updated for a while.
I don't believe it's a mess, nor is it obselete in my opinion.
It simply works, drop an Xfce compatible theme in "~/.themes/" and it'll show up in the Appearance settings.

I've been advising new users to put any new themes in there for some time, all without issue.
Root account or password to access it isn't needed, no accidental overwrites of any mods with an update etc..

I prefer steering new users in that direction rather than having to navigate to /usr/share/themes or wherever, then finding out they can't modify or add something there without using the root account or password.
I also advise users to put any desired icon themes in "~/.local/share/icons" for the same reasons, and with my Debian based Xfce setups I now leave the system's locations for those things alone (the "/usr/share/" folders) and use only the folders in "~/.whatever" for adding/modding anything like that.

I can't confirm anything and always advise users to use "~/.themes/" so far with no reported issues.
I'm not a developer, just a user who likes Linux and Xfce, who sometimes helps new users getting to know and use Linux.

daffyduck · 2026-06-27 15:02:16

JmaCWQ wrote:

I also advise users to put any desired icon themes in "~/.local/share/icons" for the same reasons

Just a reminder: I'm still waiting for an answer to
"Does ~/.local/share/themes work reliably since XFCE 4.18, in all major distros?"
I'm anxious to know the answer.

Not your fault?
I'm not sure what you're getting at or why you'd be paranoid about something being your fault because a spec hasn't been updated for a while.
I don't believe it's a mess, nor is it obselete in my opinion.
It simply works, drop an Xfce compatible theme in "~/.themes/" and it'll show up in the Appearance settings.

It is my fault if "~/.local/share/themes" actually works reliably, but I was too lazy to find out whether it works.

A few reasons:
- the spec says "for backwards compatibility"
- I'm pretty sure I can easily find plenty of articles on the web complaining about all the directories present in users' $HOME
- I concur with those complaints: the $HOME is a mess IMO, and removing $HOME/.themes is a step closer to making it a little cleaner.

I prefer steering new users in that direction rather than having to navigate to /usr/share/themes or wherever, then finding out they can't modify or add something there without using the root account or password.

Under no circumstances would I instruct users to use elevated privileges in order to install something as simple as a theme.

I'm not a developer, just a user who likes Linux and Xfce.

I don't like Linux at all, nor Posix, nor freedesktop standards, nor do I like any existing operating system. How can people like an operating system, or a kernel, when they are all such a garbage? 50 more years into the future, someone might make an OS that can, perhaps, be likable.
But I do like Xfce. So, we have at least something in common.
Anyway, thank you for replying.

Last edited by daffyduck (2026-06-27 21:52:52)

eriefisher · 2026-06-27 23:03:10

~/.themes has always been the default directory for "users" to put themes for all Desktops and even window managers as far as I know. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Using this directory, the theme is only available to that one user.

/usr/share/themes is used if the theme is installed via a package such as a .deb, .rpm etc. Even if it was installed from source in most cases. This requires a privileged user and the theme is available to all users on a system.

I don't know it ~/.local/share/themes works or not. I've never had any reason to try it since I've never seen it in installation instructions and had no reason to veer from the established norm.

Added later 16 min 30 s:
Just looking in ~/.local/share/themes and yes there are themes, that work in there. Looks like these were the default themes when upgraded sometime ago. There is even a xfce4/labwc theme there for wayland. This on xfce 4.20 though. I know your question was about 4.18. My answer to that would be "who cares". 4.20 was released December 2024 so if there is still a distro out there using 4.18 by default it's likely an LTS or the user didn't bother to upgrade. LTS support will likely expire soon and the user should at least upgrade to a current stable release.

A lot of software gets bogged down in development by trying to be backwards compatible. I say just keep moving forward. Staying current and backwards compatibility aren't always compatible.

daffyduck · 2026-06-28 07:39:25

eriefisher wrote:

~/.themes has always been the default directory for "users" to put themes for all Desktops and even window managers as far as I know. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

What was standard in the far past is irrelevant. Only the current standards are relevant.

I've never had any reason to try it since I've never seen it in installation instructions and had no reason to veer from the established norm.

The reason to veer from is that it might not be the established norm anymore, as you might have started noticing.

Just looking in ~/.local/share/themes and yes there are themes, that work in there.

I'm glad to know that new and better standards are kicking in.

I know your question was about 4.18.

My question was "since 4.18", so 4.18 and later.

My answer to that would be "who cares".

I do.

if there is still a distro out there using 4.18 by default it's likely an LTS or the user didn't bother to upgrade.

LTS operating systems are as good as any other. I dislike denigrating the choice of those users who decided to keep their fully supported system. I'm also not a fan of upgrade frenzy. There are many reason why a user may decide to not upgrade until the LTS expires (like stability, security, or just personal preferences).
And I'm certainly against leaving those users in the dust, just out of pure laziness.

LTS support will likely expire soon and the user should at least upgrade to a current stable release.

You are wrong. Linux Mint 22.0 Wilma was released 07.2024, XFCE 4.18, and it is supported until 2029.

A lot of software gets bogged down in development by trying to be backwards compatible.

That someone was too lazy to take 5 minutes to update
https://wiki.xfce.org/howto/xfwm4_theme
with current situation about "~/.local/share/themes" does not look to me as a valid excuse to proclaim "bogged down by backwards compatibility"

Added later 2 h 11 min 47 s:
=================================

I decided to be a bit less lazy and to look up the most recent standard, which sheds a light on what is actually happening.

My final conclusion is that the relevant documentation at
https://wiki.xfce.org/howto/xfwm4_theme
is at least outdated, but also confusing and not well-written, and points to the obsolete version of the standard.

Here is the latest standard, and the relevant excerpts:
https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir/latest/

=======================
The XDG Base Directory Specification is based on the following concepts:
There is a single base directory relative to which user-specific data files should be written. This directory is defined by the environment variable $XDG_DATA_HOME.
=======================
$XDG_DATA_HOME defines the base directory relative to which user-specific data files should be stored. If $XDG_DATA_HOME is either not set or empty, a default equal to $HOME/.local/share should be used.
=======================

That clears it up.

But,
https://wiki.xfce.org/howto/xfwm4_theme
is silent on whether that standard is properly supported, although it appears that it is supported. I have no way of knowing the actual state of support until the official Xfce docs are updated.

Added later 3 h 07 min 43 s:
========================

Also, see how I fixed it in this post of mine
https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=19313
under
Option 2: Download and Install via BASH commands

Xfce Forum

Sub domains

#1 2026-06-27 12:02:17

ERROR/BUG: wiki.xfce.org themes location error

#2 2026-06-27 12:41:24

Re: ERROR/BUG: wiki.xfce.org themes location error

#3 2026-06-27 12:56:36

Re: ERROR/BUG: wiki.xfce.org themes location error

#4 2026-06-27 14:13:58

Re: ERROR/BUG: wiki.xfce.org themes location error

#5 2026-06-27 15:02:16

Re: ERROR/BUG: wiki.xfce.org themes location error

#6 2026-06-27 23:03:10

Re: ERROR/BUG: wiki.xfce.org themes location error

#7 2026-06-28 07:39:25

Re: ERROR/BUG: wiki.xfce.org themes location error

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