How NOT to design a desktop (with notes and links)

daffyduck · 2026-06-30 17:59:12

This post is just for fun, something I stumbled upon and couldn’t resist sharing.

I hope no one here minds a bit of GNOME-bashing.

The first thing I noticed on gnome.org is that they don’t seem to follow common standards outside their own. For example, the fonts on blogs.gnome.org resize in a rather random way, probably based on document width rather than the standard angular CSS sizing.

Here is an excerpt from
https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2021/0 … y-power-4/

Base motivations that inform everything we do.
- We believe in software freedom as an inclusive, accountable model for producing technology in the commons.
- Our software is built to be usable by everyone. We care deeply about user experience, accessibility, internationalization, and support for a diverse range of hardware.

And, in the same post:

Every preference has a cost, and this cost rises exponentially as you add more of them. This is why we avoid preferences as much as possible, and focus on fixing the underlying problems instead.

To me, that sounds less like true inclusivity and more like a commitment to a specific design philosophy: inclusive for users who accept their assumptions, and less so for those who don’t accept or don't like it.

Then it goes on to say:

System-wide theming is a broken idea. If you don’t like the way apps look, contribute to them directly (or to the platform style).

So, if you don't like how their apps look, please become their unpaid software developer.

But, there is a link there on text "theming is a broken idea" to another post, supposedly written by one of their important developers:
https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2018/1 … -at-scale/

That post is even worse. It basically argues that theming is a bad idea, except for a very small set of themes approved by GNOME. It then goes on to claim that making theming work is practically impossible.

What I find especially weak is that it doesn’t just talk about complex customizations. Even minor color changes are treated as if they would somehow “break everything,” supposedly because they are too hard to test.

What it seems to ignore is that these theming problems are likely the result of poor software design: the original designers failed to define and properly document a sufficient set of variables for basic UI colors. M$ Windows, for example, exposes more than 30 such variables, which is why color theming is both possible and straightforward there.

So, perhaps, a completely different issue is at play there: GNOME developers cannot stand criticism, and they are NOT very inclusive at all.

As for the rest of those two posts, I think I don’t need to comment further.
Read them yourself and make up your own mind.

organicode · 2026-07-04 23:10:08

System-wide theming is always going to take a lot of effort in such a diverse ecosystem as libre software.

Also, I often value some programs looking completely distinct. It might be to create a different mood, eg. a playful program might have more interesting use of colour. A program in which I'll need to concentrate for LONG HOURS might be dark theme for less eye strain etc. Also two browsers for two different profiles should look immediately different.

As opposed to system-wide theming, customizing a **single apps appearance** could and should be made easy, When customizing may require CSS knowledge etc, app developers ought provide a sample theme so a user may experiment with, to arouse further study and learning, and ultimately adjust to taste.

When I think of system-wide theming, I find that Matcha is a fairly consistent, clean base. 'Matcha sea' (and alternatively 'Matcha azul', 'Matcha aliz', and 'Matcha pueril') seem to provide a good blend of light and dark to create some basic contrast, and it supports a range of GTK toolkits, and iirc another windowing toolkit. I'm slowly chipping away at a Matcha-enhanced version of Trisquel, that works in both the snazzy KDE desktop and the less high-powered LXDE Mini desktop, which I'm replacing with Xfce. You'll find how I have addressed installation of the package there, if interested.

I spent time theming programs once, I found GTK2 painful but was able to get something over the line, GTK3 was easier. iirc, they both depended on on whether the program developer used sufficient identifiers on elements, I've not tried theming in GTK4... yet.

I've had my own issues with gnome. One of the latest I noticed was Rhythmbox fetching cover art by default(!?). I don't have time to look into it further. I don't much care for Rhythmbox. In the past I've tried to email GNOME devs but they were behind impenetrable layers of security, if they can only be accessed via a big tech email server I consider them insecure. I've since given up on email completely, as a colonized protocol I feel that I'm helping to accelerate the predator class' understanding of affairs faster than helping ethical individuals who may not use predatory email servers, If I reject email from predator servers, or try to offboard people, I'll be flagged as a security risk to the predator, which will then stop delivery people's emails to me, which means by just having an email account I'm allowing people to type messages to me that only the predator class will read, which then opens me up to attacks on an even more detailed and fine-grained scale, So I've found it safer for me to just use XMPP with those people who value basic communication and leave email behind. I have had many reasons to want to contribute in small,ways to the gnome software over the years but I've realized that maybe I should just do work for me and people willing to communicate sensibly.

This forum is a sensible communication medium.

Last edited by organicode (2026-07-04 23:13:40)

daffyduck · 2026-07-05 15:24:05

organicode wrote:

System-wide theming is always going to take a lot of effort in such a diverse ecosystem as libre software.

Not necessarily.
If we are talking just color theming, then system-wide color theming is a relatively simple feature that primarily depends on good architecture of the widget library, but also on good architecture of the display server and OS support.

Just some foresight is needed for it, and rational thinking.

The problem might be that GNOME libraries lack "good architecture".

Also, I often value some programs looking completely distinct.

Per-application theming is something completely different.
It is generally less important than "System-wide theming".
It depends on the widget library support, and the app itself must support it.

As opposed to system-wide theming, customizing a **single apps appearance** could and should be made easy,

But it is much harder for app developers to implement it. And, each app essentially needs its own theming code, although support by widget libraries also helps a lot.

When customizing may require CSS knowledge etc, app developers ought provide a sample theme so a user may experiment with, to arouse further study and learning, and ultimately adjust to taste.

That "ought" is essentially your wishlist.
For me, I'm already happy if I can even get an app that does what I want.
Then I'm more happy if it supports system-wide theming.
And I'm even more happy if it has its own theming engine. Fortunately, most important apps do have it.

When I think of system-wide theming, I find that Matcha is a fairly consistent, clean base.

The first think you have to understand is that people have very diverse preferences.
So, I'm all for diversity, and I would never vote for any reduction of diversity.

I've had my own issues with gnome. One of the latest I noticed was Rhythmbox fetching cover art by default(!?).

Oh, just that? What a wonderful desktop would it be if that was the only issue.

the predator class' understanding of affairs faster than helping ethical individuals who may not use predatory email servers,

Sounds like politics to me, and I think this forum is not a right place for that.

I have had many reasons to want to contribute in small,ways to the gnome software over the years but I've realized that maybe I should just do work for me and people willing to communicate sensibly.

Everyone has his own preferences.
It has a lot to do with the basic principles that a person accepts.
So, when you find a group of people with compatible principles, then you can more easily communicate or work with them.
It is your choice to decide on who you like.

Xfce Forum

Sub domains

#1 2026-06-30 17:59:12

How NOT to design a desktop (with notes and links)

#2 2026-07-04 23:10:08

Re: How NOT to design a desktop (with notes and links)

#3 2026-07-05 15:24:05

Re: How NOT to design a desktop (with notes and links)

Board footer