Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

Blacklight · 2026-08-17 17:22:20

I think everyone should be aware of the fact, that there is a deliberate effort to actually sabotage the *Linux (Gnu/Linux) Desktop with Gnome/Wayland being forced out by mainstream distributors by default, with hardcoded systemd dependency, and xorg support dropped.

Xorg (like Xfce) is the best, the most stable, the most reliable, and actually works on everything. EVERYTHING! It also works, without issues, without bugs, with little intervention necessary to fix graphical incompatibility that occurs infrequently. It works, it works perfectly with ease.

I was just pointing out in another thread here about Xfce, that Xfce on Xorg, is so stable, that you could literally run that desktop for years, without any bugs, or any crashing, and with a consistent, reliable experience.

That's what using a computer should be like, for everybody, and everybody that uses a computer, no matter what graphical hardware or peripheral devices they choose to use.

Dropping Xorg support is going to kill the *Linux Desktop for countless people around the world. When the new distributions come out, with the new updates, people are going to be confronted with broken, unworkable systems. They are going to be confused.

They are are going to be stuck, with a broken desktop, a broken gui, and a broken computer overall, and they're going to be thinking about switching away, maybe, back to the system that was originally installed on theirs, or a different distribution entirely, going back through the whole process of searching for a distribution to use, and reinstalling it, just to discover, it's broken again, because all the mainstream distro's have literally sabotaged the *Linux Desktop, and the community, failed, to do anything about it.

(they're going to blame *Linux, and they're going to be unsatisfied, with the *Linux desktop)

Just thought you guys should be aware of the fact, it's deliberate sabotage, they probably don't care, and there are real interests in the world, that want to sabotage the *Linux Desktop at the same time, they do care. We could be witnessing that effort right here and now, with the new updates coming out.

Xfce + Xorg are like the bedrock of a stable, modern, reliable, *Linux (gnu/linux) Desktop, that works for everybodies different hardware. Everyone should be aware of the fact. Everyone should have the option, to use their computer, without suffering constant graphical issues, and Dependency Lockups.

People should be free, and what we are witnessing upstream, is an effort, to take away people's freedom.

Last edited by Blacklight (2026-08-17 17:32:05)

makerofkillstreaks · 2026-08-18 13:11:55

So...what's everyone's thoughts on XFCE with Wayland? It's an experimental project that's been released by the XFCE team. It's so buggy that I can't even boot it up. When I try to do so, I get sent back to the LightDM login screen in an instant.

Blacklight · 2026-08-18 14:03:31

It's experimental on all the other distributions too. Desktops are complex, and countless different programs, operating conditions are related to the desktop. That means it doesn't simply work for everybody, because it's shiny. That doesn't meet the needs of the desktop, shininess.

Then there is "Gnome"

"Get GNOME

GNOME is used as the default experience across Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora Workstation, SUSE Linux Enterprise, Vanilla OS, Endless OS, and more."

The reality is that these projects are making major highly impactful decisions, without the input of the community involved, and it is a real disaster. When people go to try *Linux for the first time, after reading all the propaganda about it, that it's great, that it's 'independent,' that its responsible, moral, does all the things they need, supports every computing envrionment -- only to get stuck at a loading screen, a crashed UI, buggy processes, with all manner of confusing new lingo behind the scenes, #! < . > / [@()] they are staring not only at a broken computer, but a complete disaster. It's a complete disaster.

This is what they do, when they want FREE TESTING for their NEW UNSTABLE software projects. Wayland is NEW (shiny) and it's UNSTABLE. They need free testers to make it work, they know that, this is what always happens, and so they are forcing it out by default, into the real world, to actually fix it, magically, because people will report complaints about it, and hopefully, even contribute fixes.

But what that means is, that people are going to have a broken system configuration, installed on their systems, by default. That should be totally unacceptable, and they are going to leave *Linux, they are going to turn to proprietary corporate operating systems.

Added later 07 min 22 s:
Then, there is a coverup going on. This is a huge situation. People know, it's unstable, it's broken, that it's far worse than the known, reliable, stable alternative, of Xorg, and that it's going to break people's computers - literally break people's computers! How could a *Linux distribution knowingly, break people's computers? How could they get away with that!

A: There's a coverup!

This is an absolute scandal! When you change people's computers, that is a big deal, but when you deliberately break people's computers, that is a crime!

makerofkillstreaks · 2026-08-18 16:28:16

Blacklight wrote:

It's experimental on all the other distributions too. Desktops are complex, and countless different programs, operating conditions are related to the desktop. That means it doesn't simply work for everybody, because it's shiny. That doesn't meet the needs of the desktop, shininess.
Then there is "Gnome"
"Get GNOME
GNOME is used as the default experience across Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora Workstation, SUSE Linux Enterprise, Vanilla OS, Endless OS, and more."
The reality is that these projects are making major highly impactful decisions, without the input of the community involved, and it is a real disaster. When people go to try *Linux for the first time, after reading all the propaganda about it, that it's great, that it's 'independent,' that its responsible, moral, does all the things they need, supports every computing envrionment -- only to get stuck at a loading screen, a crashed UI, buggy processes, with all manner of confusing new lingo behind the scenes, #! < . > / [@()] they are staring not only at a broken computer, but a complete disaster. It's a complete disaster.
This is what they do, when they want FREE TESTING for their NEW UNSTABLE software projects. Wayland is NEW (shiny) and it's UNSTABLE. They need free testers to make it work, they know that, this is what always happens, and so they are forcing it out by default, into the real world, to actually fix it, magically, because people will report complaints about it, and hopefully, even contribute fixes.
But what that means is, that people are going to have a broken system configuration, installed on their systems, by default. That should be totally unacceptable, and they are going to leave *Linux, they are going to turn to proprietary corporate operating systems.
Added later 07 min 22 s:
Then, there is a coverup going on. This is a huge situation. People know, it's unstable, it's broken, that it's far worse than the known, reliable, stable alternative, of Xorg, and that it's going to break people's computers - literally break people's computers! How could a *Linux distribution knowingly, break people's computers? How could they get away with that!
A: There's a coverup!
This is an absolute scandal! When you change people's computers, that is a big deal, but when you deliberately break people's computers, that is a crime!

Yeah, Wayland feels kinda shoved down people's throats. It made Debian KDE nearly unusable for me, and Debian GNOME was pretty slow. I really wish that Redhat just focused on ironing out the X protocol instead of creating an unfinished one and forcing Linux users to use it. Wayland is never going to be the future unless it's forced so much that it outclasses X, which I doubt will happen.

Blacklight · 2026-08-18 16:55:10

Why are you quoting my entire post. I already posted my entire post. It's right below yours.

Typically when people do that, they're trying to get people banned on the forums, or are preparing to present people's forum posts, as a problem, or a violation of the rules.

This is the kind of behavior that disables the *Linux community, and prevents people from dealing with the real problems facing the *Linux Desktop.

For those of us, who actually help others to use *Linux these upstream change are a really big deal. Now we have to explain to people, yes, your desktop is deliberately broken by upstream, and you should be having an entirely different experience with *Linux.

People should be experiencing an enormous upgrade - from the proprietary corporate OS' that they are familiar with - when they switch to *Linux. Instead, because of the persistent effort to break the desktop, they get a broken, crappy, buggy, slow, *Linux, and it's confusing, and they don't know what to do, and they have to search around for answers, and there are no answers, because the communities have been violated

(there's also no answers, because the "internet" doesn't like *linux and doesn't want people to search for and discover answers related to *linux)

When I help someone install *Linux, and learn to use it, there is no way, I am going to give them a bad desktop. I am going to give them the best desktop possible, with Xfce + Xorg, so they don't have to experience bugs, or slowdowns, or lockups, so they have the best experience possible.

That's the kind of behavior we should be seeing from upstream, instead, we have a completely - wildly - different situation.

Last edited by Blacklight (2026-08-18 16:59:19)

makerofkillstreaks · 2026-08-18 18:32:38

Sorry for quoting your post

CwF · 2026-08-18 21:42:55

Blacklight wrote:

When you change people's computers, that is a big deal, but when you deliberately break people's computers, that is a crime!

No one has standing to claim a crime.
Xfce on X is still available, so the wolf is premature, just a little puppy.
Fortunately, developers have the right to do whatever they want.
And you can Fork It!

Blacklight · 2026-08-18 23:40:15

That's how it makes me feel. (these are my feelings inside)

When I am looking, at someone elses computer, and they have a slow/buggy interface, a misconfigured system, (worse by default)(thats the worst) I honestly feel, like a crime has been committed.

The reason why I feel that way, is because I - work with computers - and make them work correctly, and make them perform reliably, efficiently, without issues, without interruptions, or delays, or bugs, I make the computer, a perfect computer.

That's how it should be for everybody. Everybody should have - a perfect computer. It makes me frustrated... or quietly outraged, when they don't have a perfect computer. That's what they should all have.

CwF · 2026-08-19 00:17:07

Blacklight wrote:

That's how it makes me feel. (these are my feelings inside)

Yah, that's ok. I do think X has some years left. Along with x86, both deaths are exaggerated and a ways off.

If simpler needs are meet with Wayland, what's the harm. There's room for both.

JmaCWQ · 2026-08-19 03:22:49

When I am looking, at someone elses computer, and they have a slow/buggy interface, a misconfigured system, (worse by default)(thats the worst) I honestly feel, like a crime has been committed.

People will try to set up their computers how they want them, sometimes knowing what's the best things to do, other times not.
I believe most distros by default choose settings and configurations that are acceptable for the majority of users, doesn't always work that way for each individual setup though.

The reason why I feel that way, is because I - work with computers - and make them work correctly, and make them perform reliably, efficiently, without issues, without interruptions, or delays, or bugs, I make the computer, a perfect computer.

You make them work correctly, perform reliably, without issues, interruptions, delays, bugs and make them perfect?
It would be nice if we could do that wouldn't it.

People should be free, and what we are witnessing upstream, is an effort, to take away people's freedom.

One of the great things about Linux or other open source OS's, if we don't like what's going on upstream, we are free to alter that ourselves, or choose a distro/desktop environment that alters that for us.

Blacklight · 2026-08-19 04:09:00

Look at this. The whole situation is totally outrageous, and - it's insane.

Our plan is to address the remaining issues as soon as possible and target Ubuntu 26.10 with 100% rust-coreutils.

#https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/an-update-on-rust-coreutils/80773

Ru/Linux? o wait... it's RuNU/Linux

Ru+NU+Linux+Ubuntu Good luck helpless audience

(lots of questions)

(will it be Ru/Linux + XuBuntu? Ruxububuntu?)

Here's a solid question: Which one of you thought RU/LINUX was a good change for the entire Ubuntu community?

(rhetorical (you're fired))

- edit -

and it goes on and on, it just keeps getting worse

Examples of Wayland being forced on users
This is exactly the kind of behavior this gist seeks to prevent.
Asahi Linux enforces Wayland for ARM-based Macs: https://social.treehouse.systems/@marca … 1574112092
Fedora enforces Wayland for KDE Plasma: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ … _6_upgrade?
Red Hat enforces Wayland for RHEL:https://www.redhat.com/de/blog/rhel-10-plans-wayland-and-xorg-server
Gnome has announced to drop X11 support, forcing Wayland onto people
Fedora has announced to drop X11 support for the default (Gnome) version, forcing Wayland onto people
Ubuntu has decided to drop X11 support for the default (Gnome) version, forcing Wayland onto people
I just completed reco

https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7 … 9f2d1f2277

"Wayland breaks everything!"
tl;dr: Wayland is not "the future", it is merely an incompatible alternative to the established standard with a different set of priorities and goals.

https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic. … 3#p2816709

Recovering from the most frustrating Linux Mint problem ever. Right before lunch yesterday (it's now 12:02 a.m. in NY), I tried to use Wayland, so I logged out and logged back in with Wayland. BIG Mistake! It totally crashed Mint, so I was unable to boot back into Mint.

("Wayland breaks everything") Does that sound like something you want by default on your computer? They are totally transforming the *Linux desktop, and nobody even understands it. All they know - is that they just have to keep mindlessly updating - like *Linux zombies.

(theyre killing the desktop guys, they are going to force everybody to conform, to 'wayland' and everybody else will be non-compliant, like people that refuse to accept cookies visiting websites.)

Last edited by Blacklight (2026-08-19 05:32:14)

JmaCWQ · 2026-08-19 08:08:13

As you seem to know all about how Wayland is "killing the desktops", how about providing some advice on how to prevent that from happening?

Blacklight · 2026-08-19 13:24:35

I'm sorry I don't talk to moths...

on computers and in the real world

Here's a solid question: Which one of you thought RU/LINUX was a good change for the entire Ubuntu community?
(rhetorical (you're fired))

gogogadget · 2026-08-19 16:05:53

Blacklight wrote:

People should be free, and what we are witnessing upstream, is an effort, to take away people's freedom.

You're free to use what's available or create a software on your own if you're not satisfied, it has always been like this in the Linux ecosystem.

Regarding Mint, Wayland support will no longer be experimental for their next release.

https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=5046

And the development of the official Wayland compositor for Xfce has started.

https://alexxcons.github.io/blogpost_15.html

As for Wayland breaking everything, I could launch Xfce with Labwc in 2024 for testing, you have to RTFM when you use software you don't know.

Blacklight · 2026-08-19 16:39:00

People aren't 'free' that's the point. It's all about taking away user freedom. That's what 'hardcoded dependency' means. That means users lose choice, they lose modularity, they lose the ability to change. They become *stuck* (trapped) by default.

These changes are like changing the entirety of Gnu/Linux as we know it. It will now be RU/Linux, and here you are flatly denying the truth, misdirecting the general public, from awareness about the reality.

That's the story told by the 'internet' about this 'wayland' and 'Ru/Linux' trend - it's all lies. Why does the 'internet' need to be saturated with lies about these subjects?

A: There's an overt coverup.

They are figuratively Killing the Gnu/Linux desktop - as we all know it. That's not controversial, or up to debate, that's a reflection of the reality of the situation.

What will we do now? - That they've 'killed the Gnu/Linux desktop' as we know it? That's a real question many different projects are asking themselves, and trying to figure out - right now.

(because that's the reality)

We could talking about - why they did in fact 'Kill' the Gnu/Linux desktop. That would be smart.

Or we could be contrasting the difference between the Open Source proprietary ecosystem, with it's own literally - private - agenda (secret) and the Free Software ecosystem which forms the basis of the entirety of decades worth of Gnu/Linuxes development.

I don't think you guys are honestly up to the task.

(maybe you're in the wrong web forum, maybe you were looking for the Gnome or Kde web forum) (this is the xfce forum, and we don't deserve to be misled or lied to about the fundamental building blocks of our desktop environment)

-- edit --
Added later 3 h 18 min 33 s:

it really looks like a proprietary take-over of *Linux with rust and wayland... the internet propaganda reminds me of the first presidential election... ya know, for he-who-shall-not-be-named (harry potter reference) like there is absolutely bot spam, aispam all over the place, for this nonsense

Here's some quotes from upstream, alternatively, to the robot/ai/wayland/rust spamming.

...our Long Term Support releases, which are relied upon by governments, financial institutions, educational establishments, nonprofits and many others for years after the initial release date.

Over the years, projects like GNU Coreutils have been instrumental in shaping the Unix-like experience that Ubuntu and other Linux distributions ship to millions of users.

This package provides utilities which have become synonymous with Linux

https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/engineer … ears/55000

https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/carefull … untu/56995

Canonical is funding a 3-year PhD project, with matched support from UK Research and Innovation, to investigate increasing the rigour of automated C to Rust translations. The project will be led in Bristol by Professor Meng Wang, with Dr Cristina David and myself as co-supervisors.

https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/investin … tion/86369

Ubuntu is already carefully but purposefully adopting uutils coreutils, Debian might follow the same path, and Microsoft offers it as well.

https://uutils.org/

The Rust Commercial Network (RCN) launched and held their first meeting. See current initiatives, upcoming events on the RCN calendar, and join the discussion on the RCN Zulip channel. Canonical is a member of the Rust Foundation and the Rust Commercial Network and is working to improve Rust for the Ubuntu community and enterprise users.
Canonical is providing infrastructure support to the Rust Foundation and ecosystem.

https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/rust-on- … 2026/84568

The Rust Foundation is a non-profit membership organization incorporated in United States; it manages the Rust trademark, infrastructure, and assets.[205][49]
It was established on February 8, 2021.[206] The foundation's board was chaired by Shane Miller,[207] with Ashley Williams as interim executive director.[49] In late 2021, Rebecca Rumbul became executive director and CEO.[208]
The foundation's website lists ARM, Amazon, Google, Huawei, Meta, Microsoft, and OpenAI as platinum members.[209] OpenAI is the latest platinum member, having joined in June 2026.[47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_(pro … Foundation

It reads like they are replacing major upstream projects, the broader *Linux universe depends on, with corporate subsidiaries, they're building a completely new operating system, dragging out the rug from beneath all of our feet, misleading everybody about the reality of the situation, and soon enough - we'll be living in MS*iNux in no time at all.

Unless, we wake up to the reality of the situation, and seek alternatives.

Added later 3 h 54 min 01 s:
-- edit --

I guess we would understand the situation if we actually talked to each other about it, but we don't.

Or supported people, talking about... reality, but we don't do that either.

Looks like we're in MS*iNux already

Added later 4 h 59 min 13 s:
-- edit ---

(im just talking to myself at this point, since no one is is capable)

Guys, everyone knows the Good Guys, in Star Wars, are the 'Rebels' so pick your side. Will you choose the Light! Side... The Good Guys... Or.. will you choose... THE DARK SIDE. (the bad guys)

it's your choice, it's really simple. temptation might be involved, but you need to resist. ...

For the light, for the good... for mankinds salvations d00ds

Last edited by Blacklight (2026-08-19 19:58:02)

treeview · 2026-08-19 22:04:05

Curious, I think we forget GNU/Linux was never designed to be a desktop OS, it has since (with its multitude of distributions) appealed as a personal desktop environment, but is still mainly a OS for servers and advanced users. I'm not sure the Rust Wayland issue plays as negativity on the server (largest) side of the equation.

Blacklight · 2026-08-19 22:10:35

I think it's a corporate project... so it's antithetical to the ideals of Free Software that form the underlying principles driving the whole of Gnu/Linux development over time, as well as other operating systems.

That's really simple to understand. It must be the case, that the 'propaganda' surrounding the issue is really important, to prevent people from coming to that basic conclusion - which is devastating.

Gnu/Linux btw, is the operating system, now it will be Ru/Linux a NEW operating system. That's not what any of us paid for... or chose, that's not what any of us want.

Nobody wants a New operating system, but that's what they're forcing on everybody.

Last edited by Blacklight (2026-08-19 22:14:35)

treeview · 2026-08-19 22:50:38

Blacklight wrote:

I think it's a corporate project... so it's antithetical to the ideals of Free Software that form the underlying principles driving the whole of Gnu/Linux development over time, as well as other operating systems.
That's really simple to understand. It must be the case, that the 'propaganda' surrounding the issue is really important, to prevent people from coming to that basic conclusion - which is devastating.
Gnu/Linux btw, is the operating system, now it will be Ru/Linux a NEW operating system. That's not what any of us paid for... or chose, that's not what any of us want.
Nobody wants a New operating system, but that's what they're forcing on everybody.

Like it or not, I don't believe Rust changes GNU/Linux to Ru/Linux, but does I believe provide an less proven OS.

Last edited by treeview (2026-08-19 23:10:18)

Blacklight · 2026-08-19 23:40:26

Obiwan: Let her go Anakin

Obinwan: Let, her, go.

Anakin: You turned her against me!

Obiwan: You have done that your self!

Anakin: You will not take her from me!

Obiwan: You anger and your lust for power, have already done that!

Obiwan: You have allowed this dark lord, to twist your mind, untill now, you have become the very thing you swore to destroy.

Anakin: Don't lecture me Obiwan, I see through the lies of the Jedi. I do not fear the dark side as you do! I have brought peace, freedom, justice and security to my new empire.

Obinwan: Your New Empire?

Anakin: Don't make me kill you.

Obiwan: Anakin... My allegiance is to the Republic! To Democracy!

Anakin: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.

Obiwan: ...Only a sith deals in absolutes.

JmaCWQ · 2026-08-20 01:12:27

Blacklight wrote:

I'm sorry I don't talk to moths...
on computers and in the real world

What a load of crap.
Unable to even explain why you believe what you're preaching, or more importantly, as asked, what others can do about it?
With the waffle and insults seems we're getting just more noise...

ToZ · 2026-08-20 01:22:20

I'm going to close this topic - I'm not sure where it is going. This is a forum for providing support to Xfce users and these type of posts and back and forths are neither productive nor Xfce related.

Xfce Forum

Sub domains

#1 2026-08-17 17:22:20

Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#2 2026-08-18 13:11:55

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#3 2026-08-18 14:03:31

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#4 2026-08-18 16:28:16

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#5 2026-08-18 16:55:10

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#6 2026-08-18 18:32:38

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#7 2026-08-18 21:42:55

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#8 2026-08-18 23:40:15

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#9 2026-08-19 00:17:07

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#10 2026-08-19 03:22:49

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#11 2026-08-19 04:09:00

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#12 2026-08-19 08:08:13

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#13 2026-08-19 13:24:35

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#14 2026-08-19 16:05:53

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#15 2026-08-19 16:39:00

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#16 2026-08-19 22:04:05

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#17 2026-08-19 22:10:35

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#18 2026-08-19 22:50:38

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#19 2026-08-19 23:40:26

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#20 2026-08-20 01:12:27

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

#21 2026-08-20 01:22:20

Re: Killing The *Linux Desktop (and the Gnu/Linux desktop)

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