Xfce Forum

crimesaucer

Member

Registered: 2007-05-21

Posts: 103

Things I wish xfwm4 compositing did.

I recently ditched compiz/emerald and went back to xfwm4 compositing. Here are a few things that I wish xfwm4 did:

1.) Real transparency for the xfce4-panel..... just like the way the RGBA cairo patch allows for the icons and font to be 100% while everything else is clear. It would be nice to have an easy way to use panel images in the 'Custom Panel' settings, and for it to be able to set bg/fg colors for the panel, buttons, and text instead of having to use .gtkrc-2.0 files.

2.) Real transparency for the xfwm4 window decorations..... such as the close/maximize buttons, the title font, the page icons (a transparent blur for xfwm4 would be cool too). I feel that out of this list that this and the xfce4-panel transparency are the most important. I know I'm not the only person who doesn't like using the compositing windows or panel because they make all the icons and text unreadable and dull.

3.) I wish there was a setting to blur all transparencies. One of the best things about compiz/emerald was the blur plugin and the emerald setting that would blur the window decorations. The blur plugin would work for emerald decorations, conky, screenlets, the xfce4-panel (with cairo-patch), and would even work for xfce4 apps that had the correct patches for RGBA transparency..... like xfce4 Terminal, Thunar..... etc.

The compiz blur plugin is the only reason I used compiz, I prefer the way xfwm4 feels when scrolling pages and it seems like all of my apps are a bit quicker when I don't use compiz..... but I do miss the look of the blur plugin.

4.) It would be nice if the xfce4 gtk engine could be transparent like the new murrine-svn engine that uses 'rgba = TRUE' in the gtkrc: http://www.cimitan.com/blog/2007/12/12/ … ne-engine/

Pictures:
http://www.cimitan.com/blog/wp-content/ … 170208.png
http://www.cimitan.com/blog/wp-content/ … rgba-2.jpg
http://www.cimitan.com/blog/wp-content/murrine_rgba.png
http://www.cimitan.com/blog/wp-content/ … rgba-3.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7687 … ot2mh8.png

5.) Possibly real RGBA transparency for all xfce4 4.6.1 apps built into Thunar, Mousepad, etc.... I know the xfce4 Terminal already has this built in, and so do the xfce4-notes-plugin. This way we could use gtk engines like the murrine-svn engine that have transparent themes with 100% readable text and widgets. There are some patches for xfce4 apps but they were no good and they're outdated now: http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/rgba-support/list

here are the old 4.4.2-3 versions of xfce4 apps that had RGBA patches (all these patches weren't that good anyway):

Thunar: http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/node/113
ristretto: http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/node/134
Terminal (doesn't need a patch): http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/node/87
xfce4-notes-plugin: http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/node/149
xfburn: http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/node/133

I know I could always use Gnome or Compiz/Emerald for these features, but I prefer xfce4 because it's so fast. Like I said earlier, none of this is really important other than the xfwm4 window decorations and the xfce4-panel..... but it would be a nice if xfwm4 was capable of blurred transparencies and RGBA like this: http://www.cimitan.com/blog/wp-content/murrine_rgba.png

El_Angelo

Member

Registered: 2004-11-09

Posts: 667

Re: Things I wish xfwm4 compositing did.

know I could always use Gnome or Compiz/Emerald for these features, but I prefer xfce4 because it's so fast.

Didn't read your whole rimram in detail... but fact is... if xfce could do the things you would like it to do it wouldn't be fast anymore.
And another thing. The forum is *NOT* the place for feature requests. *NONE* of the devs read the fora.

Wapush

Member

Registered: 2006-12-14

Posts: 140

Re: Things I wish xfwm4 compositing did.

Hi crimesaucer

According to this message of Nick Schermer, it seems that the panel of Xfce 4.8 will support RGBA transparency.

For your other requests, you need to open a new bug report on Bugzilla Xfce, then select the right component and in severity choose "enhancement".

---

Xfce on identi.ca
Thunar on identi.ca

crimesaucer

Member

Registered: 2007-05-21

Posts: 103

Re: Things I wish xfwm4 compositing did.

@ El_Angelo: I had actually started this forum thread just to have a conversation about things that I wished xfwm4 did with other xfce4/xfwm4 users.....

I didn't think of it as a direct request to anyone that was part of the development process.....

Of all the forums that I go to, this is usually one of the least active..... So I doubt there was any need for a BOLD TEXT STICKIED THREAD about my "wish list".

know I could always use Gnome or Compiz/Emerald for these features, but I prefer xfce4 because it's so fast.

Didn't read your whole rimram in detail... but fact is... if xfce could do the things you would like it to do it wouldn't be fast anymore.
And another thing. The forum is *NOT* the place for feature requests. *NONE* of the devs read the fora.

I'm aware of the reasons that xfce4 is fast. I know the blurring of transparencies might slow things down a bit.

However I doubt having RGBA in the xfce4-panel or the xfwm4-windows would create any drain on resources.

And having RGBA written into all xfce4 apps in the way that it is already implemented in the xfce4 Terminal and the xfce4-notes-plugin might create a bit of a drain on resources when using rgba=TRUE in a theme engine like murrine-svn, but when using the xfce4 engine without RGBA it shouldn't matter (or using murrine-svn with rgba=FALSE).....

My overall point was that people that want to run xfce4/xfwm4 without compositing still can run it that way and there won't be any performance hit, then people that want to run xfce4/xfwm4 with compositing enabled will be using the exact same settings that they're using right now..... so they will have no difference in their performance..... and people that want to use a theme engine that uses RGBA like murrine-svn, or if they want to add the blur options for transparencies by ticking a new option in the 'Window Manager Tweaks' will get slight performance hits..... BUT it still should be better performance than running xfce4 using compiz/emerald as the window manager just to get the same blur effect. (and what good is it having transparent windows and window decorations if all the windows underneath it make it it impossible to read when using transparency)

And I would much rather have the option of RGBA widgets written into Thunar in the way it is already written into the xfce4 Terminal then having to use a buggy patch from some random person.

Basically I don't want to slow xfce4 down by adding things that have to be used as default, I only hope for a few more options added that can be chosen by the user if they want a bit of the eye candy without having to run a full gnome or compiz system.

Hi crimesaucer

According to this message of Nick Schermer, it seems that the panel of Xfce 4.8 will support RGBA transparency.

For your other requests, you need to open a new bug report on Bugzilla Xfce, then select the right component and in severity choose "enhancement".

Thanks for the good news about the panel Wapush, I hope they also do the same with the xfwm4 windows for the close buttons and the title fonts..... I'll check out the bug page and see if there are any feature requests open that are similar to mine..... if not I'll open one under the enhancement section.

El_Angelo

Member

Registered: 2004-11-09

Posts: 667

Re: Things I wish xfwm4 compositing did.

Funny you mention Terminal.... As even ofourdan (xfwm4 dev) says that Terminal is slow due to it's use of RGBA.

crimesaucer

Member

Registered: 2007-05-21

Posts: 103

Re: Things I wish xfwm4 compositing did.

Funny you mention Terminal.... As even ofourdan (xfwm4 dev) says that Terminal is slow due to it's use of RGBA.

I guess if Terminal was just a black screen with no transparency at all, and no need for RGBA then it would open as quick as mousepad does..... but even then we're only talking about a tenth of a second (or two)..... I wouldn't mind a tenth of a second added onto most apps for a few optional features to customize with. Most xfce4 apps open instantaneously..... and you can always build with LDFLAGS or use prelink or something.

When using the compiz blur (for the terminal) it does make dragging it slower (it becomes a bit of an effort dragging the window to another place on the screen.... like it's stuck in molasses). Otherwise it opens as quick as most any other app, and the performance seems the same as gnome-terminal or xterm when running commands or compiling.

As for xfce4/xfwm4 compositing verses compiz..... I think xfce4 is doing something correctly where as compiz seems to really lag when doing things like scrolling a long cluttered web page..... so I've ditched looks for performance..... I'm under the impression that if xfce4/xfwm4 added some extra options like I mentioned above that they would do it correctly with overall performance in mind before looks.

But seriously, I would just be happy for a better looking window decoration (buttons/title font) and the xfce4-panel.... and it looks like the panel thing is solved for version 4.8!

herd

Member

From: Germany

Registered: 2006-05-18

Posts: 143

Website

Re: Things I wish xfwm4 compositing did.

Blurring algorithms are very involved -- they always come at the cost of a lot of processing power.

If you can't live without the blur, I'd rather recommend to stick with compiz/emerald and upgrade your graphics card.

When I switched in 2007 from a GeForce MX2 to an ATI X1300 (both passively cooled), dragging blurred terminals went from
intolerable to barely acceptable -- maybe a real gamers card would perform seamlessly.

Today, I'm on open source driven cards only and can live without the bling -- it's so 2006 anyway

crimesaucer

Member

Registered: 2007-05-21

Posts: 103

Re: Things I wish xfwm4 compositing did.

Blurring algorithms are very involved -- they always come at the cost of a lot of processing power.

If you can't live without the blur, I'd rather recommend to stick with compiz/emerald and upgrade your graphics card.

When I switched in 2007 from a GeForce MX2 to an ATI X1300 (both passively cooled), dragging blurred terminals went from
intolerable to barely acceptable -- maybe a real gamers card would perform seamlessly.

Today, I'm on open source driven cards only and can live without the bling -- it's so 2006 anyway

True, that's why I have ditched compiz. Blur and emerald windows were the only reasons I used it, and I can easily make a nice solid (non-transparent) xfwm4 theme that looks good so I can live without the blur feature for now..... at least until I get a real nice computer..... for now all I have is a cheap notebook with 4GB RAM and NVIDIA GeForce 7150m / nForce 630m..... it's not the best graphics but it's enough for now.

I've used xfce4 since 2006 and I've been through Beryl to Compiz-Fusion since the Beryl 1.0 versions..... I also have used plain xfwm4 for a large chuck of that time (and I have tried gnome w/ metacity compositing and gnome/compiz for a few days). I think "bling" (even thought I try to never use that word) has more to do with the gtk theme and icons used rather than anything else..... but the blurred transparent windows like Cimi is making are pretty beautiful.

This is my current pure xfwm4 using the cairo patch (modified to make it black ALPHA = 0.7) for the top and bottom panels:

1440x900 view: http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr16 … ot-1-5.png

This is my same murrine-svn theme and icons (different wallpaper) using the xfce4-cairo patch (default ALPHA = 0.2) and the ccsm blur plugin. (Also the emerald theme and xfce4 Terminal using blur):

1440x900: http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr16 … hot-56.png

I personally think they both look good. Where as the theme using xfwm4 is so much nicer to use in terms of a solid and fast feeling desktop, I think themes that use compiz/emerald can look as modern and professional as distros like OS X or Windows 7.