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#1 2010-01-17 14:33:09

haarp
Member
Registered: 2010-01-17
Posts: 10

Some quirks and annoyances ;)

Greetings!

I've been a long Gnome user, but I cant say that I enjoyed it. While KDE was in my opinion extremely overloaded, Gnome tried the opposite. Removing features that were cool. In keeping it simple, they made a mess of their Desktop.
Recently, I decided to reinstall my Gentoo, because it had gotten cluttered. At the same time, I was looking for a replacement for Gnome. After trying a few of the less common Desktops, I settled for Xfce, as the others seemed incomplete and strange to me.

Xfce on the other hand seems very polished. So right now, I've been using Xfce 4.6.1 for a week now. I must say I like it. It's really simple, potentially powerful by using plugins, very fast and with a small mem footprint.
Let me thank the devs here for delivering a fun Desktop!

Fun, huh? Well, it could be even better! Nobody's perfect, and neither is Xfce. There are many small usability quirks/bugs I noticed that kind of hurt the whole experience. Then there are improvements that should be implemented. I bothered to make quite a list.
Please don't take this a insult or something. These are merely things that I think should be improved. But that's only me (but possibly others aswell) Maybe some points were already discussed. Maybe some are already tracked. Please forgive me for duplicates. I'm not saying "code this feature now!" It's just a list, for me to keep track and others to comment on smile If you'd like, I can also file bugs on some of these.

Here we go:

1) Ristretto: Displaying the current zoom level in the status bar would be very nice
2) Trash icon sometimes is full despite the trash being empty
3) Non-resizable windows still have a resize cursor when hovering over the border. But trying to resize actually moves the window. Confusing.
4) Thunar should treat mountpoints in the home as device (and display it in the sidebar and such). The File-chooser does that, resulting in inconsistent behavior.
5) Unmounting a CD won't eject it. While this doesn't bother me on my physical drives, it's quite an annoyance with my CDemu drives, since I have to manually unload the image afterwards - [already possible]
6) Nautilus beeped on every other occasion for no reason whatsoever. Now thunar is starting to do the same! Why is there a beep when i press del to delete a file? Aaah!
7) Xfce is lacking a couple of programs to manage system settings. For instance, samba shares (smb.conf front-end), printers or users. usermod and the other command-line tools are quite cumbersome.
8 ) This is well-known: Network shares are not handled by Thunar
9) Ristretto bug: When viewing gif animations, the animation is often shortly interrupted when the gif loops. Sometimes even images from other pictures in the folder are displayed in the animation [tracked]
10) Ristretto bug: When opening a png image, while there are svg images in the same folder, ristretto freezes. When opening the svg directly, ristretto works fine and can switch between the images in the folder.
11) "Appearance" should also contain an option to set the Fixed-Space font (Terminal, text editor), not only the Application font
12) Thunar: This is a big annoyance for me. I'd like to have custom views for folders. For instance, in my Downloads folder, I'd like to sort by modification time. However, I have to undo this setting to get an alphabetical sorting in other folder. Then enable again when browsing Downloads again. Uhh..
13) Thunar: Pressing ctrl+h should unhide/hide hidden files, but not save it as the default setting. [tracked]
14) Thunar: Why can't I open the properties when more than 1 item is selected? It's grayed out. This doesn't make any sense.
15) Thunar: an option to edit symlinks would be nice smile
16) Thunar: Displaying the item count in the "size" tab for folders would be really useful. Of course, the item count should be collected in the background (ioniced), as not to lose the speediness of Thunar.
17) Thunar: Symlink target should be shown in the statusbar, so I don't have to open the properties to see it.
18) Why is the text on desktop icons so tight? The abbreviation on almost every item makes it look pretty ugly
19) Drag'n'Dropping something to the desktop should place it where it is dropped, not the first free space [tracked]
20) Thunar: In my opinion, Backspace should go up, not back. Same goes for mouse4. (btw, THANK YOU for supporting mouse4/5 in the first place!)
21) Thunar: To drag'n'drop I first have to select the file, then I'm able to drag it. This requires 2 clicks where only one should be needed and causes a lot of unneeded confusion
22) Thunar: Why can't I drag'n'drop items from the Side Pane tree?
23) Thunar: The backspace key gets disabled as soon as a file is selected? Bug? [tracked]
24) Thunar: When going back/up out of a folder, the folder I just came out of should be selected like in Nautilus. That's a really useful feature IMO [tracked]
25) Ristretto: mousewheel zoom direction is inverted. A little bit confusing smile
26) Xarchiver doesn't know about backspace/mosue4 like Thunar
27) The Menu should complain when it can't access an app instead of silently not starting it.
28) An option for controlling the mousewheel sroll speed would be VERY cool!
29) Ristretto: The next/previous image order changes once the cache has been filled. It throws you somewhere else once it finished caching. Best option is not to click next/previous image until caching is complete
30) Is it just me, or doesn't Thunar have any progress bar or even indicator on file operations??
31) I want many option and infos when executing file operations smile Pausing, speed limit, nice/ionice, showing full source/destination path, current speed, etc.
32) Also, file operations should be ioniced by default, so the system stays as responsive as possible (and Xfce stays as fast as it's supposed to smile)
33) Thunar: a refresh button when viewing file/folder properties would be nice
34) Mixer applet should use different icon for the 0% (muted) setting. This had me wondering a couple of times why I can't hear anything
35) When I'm using the mousewheel on some app halfway in the background, don't bring it to the foreground!
36) Terminal: I used to always be able to right click somewhere and select "new tab" in gnome-terminal. This doesn't work in Xfce's terminal when a mouse-aware app is running (like mc). Quite annoying when you want to work without menus
37) Terminal: When pasting something into mc, newlines are omitted. Used to work fine in gnome-terminal [tracked (kinda)]
38) Menus must be edited by hand, there is no menu editor
39) I want to be able to select several desktop icons and drag them all at once to another location on the desktop
40) Don't mess with my desktop icons. EVER! I don't care how often and how successful I switch screen resolution, the icons have to stay where they're supposed to be!
41) Ristretto's sort order does use the non-intuitively one (1->10->100 instead of 1->2->...->10) [tracked]
42) Thunar urgently needs a "skip all" button for copies. Windows is lacking this button aswell and caused me to rip out a few of my hairs a couple of times.
43) While I'm on it, an option to rename duplicates while copying would also be very useful
44) Ristretto: "Move to trash" would be a nice addition [tracked]
45) Opening links in Thunderbird seems to override the focus-theft-preventer and open the browser in the foreground regardless
46) Add an option to completely disable thumbnail-caching, including creating thumbs in ~/.thumbnails. Currently, I have to chmod 000 that folder to get rid of thumbs.
47) Thunar: a stop button would be useful
48) Terminal should really export the 'MiscDefaultGeometry' option into the GUI
49) Thunar: always display free space and current folder infos. For instance, when 2 files are selected in a folder: "Selection: 2 files (1.56MB); Folder: 50 files (30.0MB); Free space: 50.2GB"
50) Ristretto should re-render vector graphics when zooming
51) Support back/forward mouse buttons in Ristretto
52) How about a quicksearch box in Thunar?
53) xfce4-settings-helper sometimes loses the ability to accept key combinations and needs to be restarted.
54) Allow dragging items from the menu to the Desktop to create a new launcher
55) "Recent documents" ignores files that have been opened at some point and were reopenend recently.
56) Thunar: Folders that can't be viewed because of missing permissions should not be empty inside, instead a big X or something could be displayed to warn the user that the current view might not be the real contents
57) Thunar: "Open in terminal" should also be available in one of the menus
58) I'd like to be able to make exceptions for the focus-theft-preventor. For instance, zenity information boxed should always be in the foreground
59) Related to Clipman?: Every text I select is automatically copied to the clipboard. This is driving me nuts! [disabling "sync selections" option in clipman fixed this]
60) Not only is that pretty useless, it also does screw up my clipboard contents.
61) Gedit and other Gnome apps modifiy the "Recent Documents" records when they open some file from within themselves. Xfce's Recent documents should pay attention to this.
62) When pasting something into a folder, highlight the newly-pasted file(s) so I can see that the paste actually succeeded
63) Rolled up windows are not shown correctly in the workspace-switcher
64) Rotating images in Ristretto is pretty important
65) "Open containing folder" in Firefox doesn't seem to recognize Thunar as a File Manager
66) Thunar: When the searchbox is open, ctrl+c/v doesn't work
67) Mixer-plugin should have one more step with 1% so it goes like this: 0%->1%->5%->10%->15% etc.
68) Extended permission settings in Thunar are very important to me.
69) Xarchiver can't handle file://
70) Ristretto should by default always reduce imagesize to windowsize, but not blow up to windowsize. It currently does that while browsing through pictures, but once you manually resize a pic, that function breaks
71) Thunar: When filesize grows, the change is reflected in the "size" tab. But when the file is selected, the status bar won't show this growth
72) "Run program": Autocompleting name with tab and then pressing enter won't run it, but open the dropdown box
73) Terminal sometimes mysteriously gains mouse focus in apps like mc while switching tabs. It will only de-focus on click.
74) Do NOT steal my cut when pasting fails!
75) When pasting something into a folder in Thunar, the new content should be selected so I can instantly verify that the paste succeeded

I'd love to hear your opinions!

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#2 2010-01-17 19:04:12

s0ulslack
Member
From: Idaho
Registered: 2005-12-25
Posts: 291

Re: Some quirks and annoyances ;)

Some of these are valid bugs, submit those here.  Alot are feature requests, you can add them to the Wiki Wish List or use bugzilla to file feature requests.

Alot of what you want/think Thuanr should do (including handling network shares) will be supported in 4.8.  Thunar 1.1.0 already has a number of these features, including gvfs/gio stuff.

All of the ristretto bugs should be filed on bugzilla.  Same for Xarchiver.

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#3 2010-01-18 01:59:26

etnlWings
Member
Registered: 2007-10-30
Posts: 218

Re: Some quirks and annoyances ;)

5: Why should unmounting a CD physically eject it? They're different operations.
7: Try installing xfprint.
8: Try installing Gigolo. Not so much a solution but a worthy workaround.
11: No, it shouldn't. Xfce is meant to be modular. Fonts are quite easy to set from both Terminal and Mousepad.
12 & 13: these don't appear to offer any great usability advantage, they just appear to be your preferred behaviour.
14: That is a shortcoming, although it's not a very big one: the properties dialog for multiple files would basically just contain a file count, a total size and not much else.
15: Agreed.
16: What is the, "size tab for folders?" Do you mean the size list-header in the detailed view?
18: This can be altered in your style properties.
20: Well at least you disclaimed that it was merely your opinion. I, personally, disagree. FTR, if you hold down the mousewheel button and drag up, you can navigate up a directory.
21 & 30: I don't experience either of these bugs.
32: Agreed, although this may just be a bug that you and I are getting. Not everyone gets slugishness/jerkiness during large file ops.
35: That behaviour, which was introduced in 4.6, can be disabled in either the Window Manager or WM Tweaks dialogs. It is there, although it's not real obvious.
36: Try Shift + right-click when using [n]curses interfaces. Or Ctrl+Shift+T. Or you can change the shortcut at your leisure.

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#4 2010-01-18 08:24:20

haarp
Member
Registered: 2010-01-17
Posts: 10

Re: Some quirks and annoyances ;)

Hello,
thanks for answering!

5: Because it's a real annoyance for working with CDemu. Besides, why not? Sure, not everbody wants that, just make it an option. Or even better, include an "eject" option for CD drives
7: Ill have a look at that, thanks
8: Gigolo worked neither on my Gentoo install, nor on a Xubuntu LiveCD. It connects to network shares, but Thunar still can't open them on Xubuntu or simply does nothing on Gentoo when selecting "open".
11: Yes, modularity is good. But the same could be applied to the application font, which CAN be selected. So why not the Monospace font? There is a global Monospace font setting which currently can't be accessed. (Just have a look at Terminal. It offers to use the global font, or to set a custom one. It's the global one I'd like to be able to modify.)
12/13: Maybe they are just that. However, they are very important to me. Besides, you don't have to enforce that behaviour. Keep it an option wink
14: And the option to set the permissions, group and maybe even the mediatagger-plugin could ork with this for mass-tagging.
16: Yup
18: It can? I didn't find it last time I looked
20: Certainly, this is based on personal opinion. I for one always considered the "back" button completely useless and would rather just go up all the time
21: Open a folder, then click on a file in it. Keeping the button clicked, try to drag it outside. Instead, you will get the rectangular selection box
30: Looks like a bug on my system then. I initiated a copy operation, but I didn't get ANY feedback other than the filesize at the destination increasing (and the responsiveness slowing down to a crawl because IO operations in Thunar are not ioniced)
32: See above. It also depends. Try to copy a file on your main drive containing your OS to the same drive and I guarantee you it will be reproducible on other systems (except maybe SSDs)
35: I tried fiddling around with the options in there, but couldn't get it work satisfyingly
36: I think I tried that already. But I will make another attempt when I get home, thanks

Some of these are valid bugs, submit those here.  Alot are feature requests, you can add them to the Wiki Wish List or use bugzilla to file feature requests.

Alot of what you want/think Thuanr should do (including handling network shares) will be supported in 4.8.  Thunar 1.1.0 already has a number of these features, including gvfs/gio stuff.

All of the ristretto bugs should be filed on bugzilla.  Same for Xarchiver.

I will do that when I have some time smile

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#5 2010-01-18 15:14:14

etnlWings
Member
Registered: 2007-10-30
Posts: 218

Re: Some quirks and annoyances ;)

Or even better, include an "eject" option for CD drives

img2vl.png

img1vr.png

But the same could be applied to the application font, which CAN be selected.

The application font should be uniform, requires no extra Xfce dependencies and, should an application need to display it's widgets using a different font face or size, it can. What you are talking about in Gnome is not part of Gtk, it's a hack. Also, setting a global monospace font is quite pointless, since it's assuming you'd even want to use the same font across multiple applications. Unless you're a geek, you're probably not going to want to use a monospace font in your text editor.

There is a global Monospace font setting which currently can't be accessed. (Just have a look at Terminal. It offers to use the global font, or to set a custom one. It's the global one I'd like to be able to modify.)

Xfce's terminal is based upon gnome-terminal. They share a common codebase.

It can? I didn't find it last time I looked

It was added in 4.6. Via your gtkrc, you can now set icon spacing, wrap-around, border type, text shadow, etc, for xfdesktop.

Open a folder, then click on a file in it. Keeping the button clicked, try to drag it outside. Instead, you will get the rectangular selection box

That's what I did. I already said I don't experience this behaviour, therefore it's probably a bug.

I tried fiddling around with the options in there, but couldn't get it work satisfyingly

screenshotmu.png

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#6 2010-01-18 16:39:17

haarp
Member
Registered: 2010-01-17
Posts: 10

Re: Some quirks and annoyances ;)

etnlWings wrote:

Or even better, include an "eject" option for CD drives

*pics*

Witch! How did you do that? Now I get the same option to eject. I swear, it wasn't there yesterday! I only could mount/unmount CD drives yikes

But the same could be applied to the application font, which CAN be selected.

The application font should be uniform, requires no extra Xfce dependencies and, should an application need to display it's widgets using a different font face or size, it can. What you are talking about in Gnome is not part of Gtk, it's a hack. Also, setting a global monospace font is quite pointless, since it's assuming you'd even want to use the same font across multiple applications. Unless you're a geek, you're probably not going to want to use a monospace font in your text editor.

Maybe pointless, maybe not. The setting is saved somewhere, but not accessible. That's my problem. I can still set my apps to use a custom font, but knowing that somewhere on my system there is a "wrong" font setting itches me hmm

There is a global Monospace font setting which currently can't be accessed. (Just have a look at Terminal. It offers to use the global font, or to set a custom one. It's the global one I'd like to be able to modify.)

Xfce's terminal is based upon gnome-terminal. They share a common codebase.

Indeed, they also look very much alike. Except for the bugs I experience in mc that weren't there in g-term (btw, shift-rightclicking doesn't help. ctrl-shift-t opens a new tab though, so I'm fine for now.)

It can? I didn't find it last time I looked

It was added in 4.6. Via your gtkrc, you can now set icon spacing, wrap-around, border type, text shadow, etc, for xfdesktop.

Cool. I don't suppose there's a GUI for that? Not that editing config files is a problem, it's just inconsistent to edit config files for one style option and have a GUI for others.
Do you know what the options called?

Open a folder, then click on a file in it. Keeping the button clicked, try to drag it outside. Instead, you will get the rectangular selection box

That's what I did. I already said I don't experience this behaviour, therefore it's probably a bug.

Agreed.

I tried fiddling around with the options in there, but couldn't get it work satisfyingly

*pic*

Oh, right. I forgot that the wheel is handled as "buttons" aswell. Thanks.

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#7 2010-01-19 05:13:55

etnlWings
Member
Registered: 2007-10-30
Posts: 218

Re: Some quirks and annoyances ;)

I CBFed finding the documentation for xfdesktop. Here's what I've got in my gtkrc:

style "xfdesktop-icon-view"
{
font_name="LucidaMacBold"
XfdesktopIconView::ellipsize-icon-labels = 0
XfdesktopIconView::shadow-x-offset = 1
XfdesktopIconView::shadow-y-offset = 1
XfdesktopIconView::selected-shadow-x-offset = 0
XfdesktopIconView::selected-shadow-y-offset = 0
XfdesktopIconView::shadow-color = "#080808"
XfdesktopIconView::selected-shadow-color = "#000000"
XfdesktopIconVIew::cell-spacing = 0
# spacing between each 'cell' in the grid of icons
XfdesktopIconView::cell-padding = 0
# sets extra padding placed around each icon+text
XfdesktopIconView::cell-text-width-proportion = 2.2
# the units are in width (so for 30px icons, '2.5' would leave a 75px wide area underneath for the $
}
widget_class "*XfdesktopIconView*" style "xfdesktop-icon-view"
widget "*XfdesktopIconView*" style "xfdesktop-icon-view"
class "*XfdesktopIconView*" style "xfdesktop-icon-view"

As for the mount/eject thing, you might want to check your policykit privs. There may also be some optional dependencies you need to install.
And on the subject of the eject/mount option, my own little gripe: once an optical disk is mounted, there's no option to unmount it; only eject it. Not that I use my CD/DVD drive much, as the thing is deafeningly loud and very nearly causes a system lockup.

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#8 2010-01-23 21:38:14

haarp
Member
Registered: 2010-01-17
Posts: 10

Re: Some quirks and annoyances ;)

Update:

I have added a whole bunch of new entries to the list and updated old ones. I also had a look at Bugzilla and edited those entries that are already tracked. The other ones I will slowly add to Bugzilla over the next few weeks smile

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#9 2010-07-18 17:21:36

the98
Member
Registered: 2009-11-10
Posts: 62

Re: Some quirks and annoyances ;)

There are two misspells in /usr/share/doc/xfdesktop4/README (at least under Debian):

One of the them is XfdesktopIconVIew::ellipsize-icon-labels = 1

That capital "I" doesn't let the property to be recognized.

The other misspell is on XfdesktopIconVIew::cell-spacing = 6

Same thing, the capital "I"...

If you copy the properties from this file, you should know that these two won't work spelled that way.

Cheers,

The98

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