Xfce Forum

kbd47

Member

Registered: 2011-10-10

Posts: 16

Xfce4 Session install

I was a bit disappointed to read today that Xubuntu will only be a 3 year LTS. I understand if they don't have the manpower they can't support it. I have an old desktop that I was planning on putting Xubuntu 12.04 on when it's released and leaving on there until the desktop dies. But in light of the difference in length of support, I'm now considering installing Xfce4 Session onto Mint 13 when it's released for 5 years LTS support. My question is--will this work? I know Xfce4 Session installed on Mint will work, but will there likely be any problems using Mint with Xfce Session installed as a 5 year LTS release?
Thanks.
KBD47

Jristz

Member

From: Sud-America

Registered: 2011-06-02

Posts: 111

Re: Xfce4 Session install

The lts support is for the "defaults and mosted used apps"
in other wordr for MY understanding (?) if you install a UBUNTU LTS and deinstall Gnome/Unity for completly and reinstalla Xubuntu-desktop you have the same 3 years but for...lightdm (a Ubuntu default app) you have the 5 years

This is MY Underestanding/knowlwdge/compreención....

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XFCE :: Arch Linux
:: AMD E-300 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics @ 1300 MHz
:: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 6310]
:: LED with aspect ration of 16:9 in 14.0'' (1366x768) [Radeon driver]

Forester

Member

Registered: 2012-01-01

Posts: 13

Re: Xfce4 Session install

Hi kdb47,

You raise some interesting points but may I ask for the link to article where you read about Xubuntu LTS ?

What you do understand by LTS ?  It may not be what you think it is (and may not be what you want).  A couple of years back I installed Hardy Heron for its LTS and within three months I'd tracked three issues as far a launchpad where the recommendation was to upgrade to the latest alpha !  LTS is support for security issues only.  Yes, they are important but they are not the ones you will notice and care about.  Bugs and crashes in your favourite applications will not be fixed and they will never be upgraded to a newer version.  Is that really what you are expecting ?

My understanding is that Xubuntu is a community project and thus the work is done by volunteers with the blessing of Canonical.  It's not that they don't have the manpower, it's they don't have the volunteers.  I find the current Xubuntu has a much larger footprint that any release since Hardy (so that's six or seven).  It is so big that on a machine with 512 Mb it is already using swap space before I launch my first application.  This makes an old machine appear even slower than it is.  I have the feeling that each release of Ubuntu is tuned for ever bigger and faster machines (it makes sense after all) and if Xubuntu (or Lubuntu) is just Ubuntu with a different desktop then it isn't tuned for your older desktop.  If you take Linux Mint and simply swap the desktop you may have the same problem.  You might well want to shop around for a Linux distribution tuned for smaller machines that sports an Xfce desktop (and if you find one let us know).

In the end, it depends on how old your desktop is (and thus how slow it's technology) and what you want to use it for.  If you put a distribution with an Xfce desktop on it that runs today's applications well, it will run them just as well in 5 years time:  they will just look slow.  I suspect that in three year's time the good, the bad and the ugly guys will have stopped looking for security flaws in today's software and you will be able to sleep easy.

kbd47

Member

Registered: 2011-10-10

Posts: 16

Re: Xfce4 Session install

Here is the article about 3 years Xubuntu lts:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/kubu … -releases/
  My desktop computer is about 7 years old. It has 750mb ram and a 2x something cpu. Right now Xubuntu 11.10 runs well on it. I was running mint 12 on it, which ran a bit slower. My understanding of Ubuntu/Mint lts releases is that they are built on Debian Testing rather than Debian Unstable, which should make them a bit more stable out of the box, plus the lts releases are supposed to be focused on stability rather than new features. Ubuntu 10.04 lts is rock solid, and that is what I'm wanting on my desktop. I'm not interested in installing Xubuntu desktop onto Ubuntu, it would basically be the same as Xubuntu. I'm thinking instead of installing Xfce4 onto Mint 13 when it comes out in May, and it will be an LTS. Installing the Xfce4 desktop onto Mint 13 will allow me to log into a Xfce4 session. I've already tried this on Mint 12 and it works great. Just interested in having security updates and not having to reinstall on my desktop. I figure 5 years will do it. Trying to figure out if there will be any issues using Mint 13 lts but with an Xfce desktop.
KBD47

Forester

Member

Registered: 2012-01-01

Posts: 13

Re: Xfce4 Session install

Thanks for the link.  Perhaps my English is wanting but I don't read the article the same way.  I read it as ... in the past there was no LTS for Xubuntu but in the future there will be ... so I see no reason for disappointment, quite the opposite.

My understanding of Ubuntu/Mint lts releases is that they are built on Debian Testing rather than Debian Unstable, which should make them a bit more stable out of the box

My understanding is very different but perhaps very wrong.  There is 'stable' and there is 'stable'.  If you have a particular version of an application that crashes all the time, it is less 'stable' than a version that does not.  If you have application for which you install an update every week, it is less stable that an application you do not update.  Often the two kinds of 'stable' are linked but they need not be.  Debian Unstable and Testing are 'not stable' in the second sense.  When Debian, Ubuntu or Linux Mint make a release they stop adding new features - the software becomes 'stable' in the second sense.  Over a certain period (18 months I think for Ubuntu) there will be updates that fix functional errors and security flaws but no upgrades to new releases that add new function.  After that, if and only if, the release is LTS, there will continue to be updates that fix security flaws but only security flaws.  An LTS release is no more 'stable' out of the box than any other release.  In terms of 'stable' in the first sense, all Debian packages are pretty 'stable'.  Ubuntu and Debian work on different release cycles and have different release criteria - Ubuntu needs something exciting and new every 6 months, Debian does not.  That's why Ubuntu take packages from both Debian Testing and Unstable.  For example, if Ubuntu want to include the latest Firefox release in each Ubuntu release, they probably have to take it from Debian Unstable.  If I were putting together a release I was going to support for longer, I'd probably take more stuff from Unstable than Testing so that it doesn't go out of date so quick.  In the end, the only truly stable software is unsupported software.

Trying to figure out if there will be any issues using Mint 13 lts but with an Xfce desktop.

Gazing into a crystal ball ?  The whole point to Debian Testing is making sure all sorts of packages work together (I've installed Debian Squeeze with XFCE, LXDE and KDE all from the same 256 Mb USB stick).  Ubuntu only comes with 'n' flavours for the same reasons you can get 'n' flavours of yoghurt - it's about shelf space.  You can install any Ubuntu from iso, install an extra desktop, remove the old one and so on.  Same for Mint.  The only question is does Linux Mint add to Ubuntu that might be significant for an XFCE user ?  Linux Mint has had a lot of good press over its MATE and other GNOME-3 phobic measures and LMDE has a XFCE iso so perhaps Linux Mint 13 will offer you XFCE as an option.  Then you really would have been worrying over nothing.