Native editor for XFCE application menu?

Ander111 · 2014-02-28 22:21:04

Just wondering... XFCE users have been asking for this for years now. Has there been any progress on it? Has a project even been started?

The generic GUI menu editors recommended here (Alacarte, LXMenuEd, Menulibre) work to some extent. They let you add, delete and modify menu entries, but you can't create categories, or move entries from one category to another. Some of them don't show the whole menu.

Yes, you can hand-edit the menu configuration files, once you know where they are and what to do. And I respect the rights of those who prefer to use command lines and text editors. However, it seems unnecessarily complicated for something that's usually so simple and direct. And of course, it opens the possibility for less-experienced users to mess up their menus.

The main purpose of a desktop system is to provide a graphic interface for applications—to make it unnecessary to use command lines for everything. Wouldn't it make sense for it to include a GUI for its own menu?

Thanks, Ander

Last edited by Ander111 (2014-03-23 20:34:08)

Jerry3904 · 2014-03-01 15:07:59

You can use the Application Finder (Alt-F2, click green down arrow), which allows you to right-click any menu entry > Edit. That Edit-Launcher dialog box allows you to change Name, Comment, Command, Working Directory, Icon, and select a couple of options. In our experience so far during MX-14 development, that covers most regular user needs.

What would be great IMHO would be if that ability were integrated into the standard Application Menu, where right now a right click just launches an application.

robert3242 · 2014-03-01 16:41:34

I have not used the Alt-F2, click green down arrow approach, but from what is posted concerning its use, it does not appear that it lets the user add a new menu item, only to edit an existing one. This may indeed solve many issues, but it wouldn't work if a new menu item needed to be added to a perfectly functional existing menu; hence, the OP's original question about a real menu editor.

Jerry3904 · 2014-03-01 17:15:50

Yup, missed that part. My bad.

Ander111 · 2014-03-04 22:27:59

Jerry3904 wrote:

You can use the Application Finder (Alt-F2, click green down arrow), which allows you to right-click any menu entry > Edit. That Edit-Launcher dialog box allows you to change Name, Comment, Command, Working Directory, Icon, and select a couple of options.

Yes, Alt+F2 lets you edit the shortcuts themselves; but like the main menu, it doesn't let you create, move, or delete them, and it doesn't add any functionality for managing categories or sub-categories.

Jerry3904 wrote:

In our experience so far during MX-14 development, that covers most regular user needs.

Application menus are pretty personal things. For example, as part of my work, I'm always trying new text editors and comparing their features. Unfortunately, text-editor authors can't agree on where their launchers should go, so they're installed all over the menu. I'd like to create an Office > Text Editors sub-category, and move all the launchers there so I can easily keep track of what I'm using. But unless I'm willing to find, understand and edit a configuration file, there's no way to do that.

This seems ironic, considering that desktop systems are supposed to make file management easier. It also seems to contradict the philosophy of Linux being highly customizeable. Even [widely used, bloated commercial OS] lets you do this.

Jerry3904 wrote:

What would be great IMHO would be if that ability were integrated into the standard Application Menu, where right now a right click just launches an application.

Yep, there'd be no reason to make it a separate app if it was part of the system... That's pretty much what I meant.

I put up with this limitation because everything else about XFCE is great. The goofy thing is, compared to most coding, this wouldn't be very complicated. If I had the time to learn a Linux programming language (which, unfortunately, I don't), I'd write it myself. If I could do it, I don't know why XFCE's developers didn't do it long ago, especially when so many people started asking for it.

My best guess is, they don't think users should manage their own menus. Indeed, I've seen discussions here where people have expressed the opinion that menu categories should be standardized—that categories and sub-categories should be established and adhered to for all possible apps. Seems like a control issue to me... What's next, allowing only certain wallpaper? :?|

Last edited by Ander111 (2014-03-04 22:29:46)

azim · 2014-03-17 17:47:33

in theory, it might be easier give up xfce menu as is and tune up appfinder

ajoelly · 2014-03-23 10:11:30

i'm using alacarte on debian jessie

Ander111 · 2014-03-23 20:34:49

ajoelly wrote:

i'm using alacarte on debian jessie

Yes, that was the first one I tried in Linux Mint XFCE. Actually, it didn't work at all. The others I've mentioned have partial functionality.

sixsixfive · 2014-03-23 20:55:51

nothing easier than this, just copy the desktop file from /usr/share/applications to ~/.local/share/applications and edit them

have a look here for all keys: http://standards.freedesktop.org/deskto … 01s05.html

Ander111 · 2014-03-24 00:31:22

sixsixfive wrote:

nothing easier than this, just copy the desktop file... and edit them... have a look here for all keys...

Actually, some things would be easier. For example, being able to right-click a menu entry and edit, copy or delete it, or drag a menu entry from one category to another. Right on the menu itself.

Yes, unless I'm overlooking something—that would definitely be easier than finding a config file, looking up the explanations of the syntax it uses, understanding everything, then hand-editing what's supposed to be a GUI feature and hoping you're not screwing it up. (Every. Time. You. Want. To. Change. Your. Menu.)

And of course, every XFCE user who needed to know your method would have to track down this thread first, or one like it, as it'd hardly be self-explanatory.

Last edited by Ander111 (2014-03-24 00:36:55)

Ambercroft · 2014-05-04 20:19:43

I got tired of the menu. I'm writing my own application.

It is close to basic operation.

The setup configuration will be to edit the config file to point to a directory where there are links to the programs or the actual programs.

Native editing by GUI will be later.

Ander111 · 2014-05-04 23:16:24

Ambercroft wrote:

I'm writing my own application... It is close to basic operation... The setup configuration will be to edit the config file to point to a directory where there are links to the programs or the actual programs... Native editing by GUI will be later.

I don't quite get it. If it's not a GUI yet, what's the advantage over hand-editing at this point? Or are you just updating us on your progress? Anyway, that's great, dude—more power to you.

As for me, I'm afraid I must give up on Mint/XFCE for now. I used it on my little netbook, as Windows 7 was ridiculously slow. (What a laugh how MS warned people about Win 7's increased system requirements, then inexplicably put it on netbooks when they suddenly became popular.)

I've now upgraded my traveling system to a budget notebook, and the bundled Windows 8 runs tolerably on it. I tried Mint/XFCE and it ran much better, of course (even from USB 3!). But fonts rendered poorly and were the wrong sizes in webpages, and no one seemed to have any idea how I could control brightness, as the Linux graphics driver hasn't caught up with the new GPU... In other words, the usual transition problems.

When there's time, I'll install it as a virtual machine so I can keep up with development and keep up with you guys. Who knows, by then there may even be an easy way to edit the XFCE menu. ;?)

Well, I'm babbling—I've had coffee. Thanks for your interest in this. Carry on. An XFCE-er at heart, A.

Last edited by Ander111 (2014-05-04 23:18:51)

Ambercroft · 2014-05-06 01:17:44

Ander111 wrote:

I don't quite get it. If it's not a GUI yet, what's the advantage over hand-editing at this point? Or are you just updating us on your progress?

Updating / informing that I am working on my own idea of a menu.

Simplicity is the advantage. The users I need to support can make and add files to a directory. The non-native GUI part is using Thunar to do this action. The files are added, they show up in the menu. No hand editing ( I hope ).

dubois · 2014-11-20 22:46:18

Guys, I've read and reread this thread and I'm confused. I have openSUSE 13.1 with Xfce 4.10.1 and I can right-click my menu icon in the panel, click properties; up pops Applications Menu and under menu file click edit menu and, um, edit menu. Maybe this is something specific to openSUSE, maybe not. hmm

Last edited by dubois (2014-11-20 22:48:21)

sixsixfive · 2014-11-20 23:09:12

dubois wrote:

Maybe this is something specific to openSUSE, maybe not.

nope it's there @line 214 http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tr … alog.glade

Last edited by sixsixfive (2014-11-20 23:10:04)

dubois · 2014-11-20 23:26:46

Thanks - glad you took time to read that as I never could although I did read The Brothers Karamazov one summer during high school. yikes And thanks for your continued and expert input. It's good to be back on a forum after several years absence - these baby-steps are slightly numbing... wink

EDIT - If this information is present as you indicate why weren't the other thread posters seeing or using the feature? That's what confuses me. Is it relatively new or is it hidden where you wouldn't normally look?

Last edited by dubois (2014-11-20 23:30:23)

Steve · 2014-11-21 03:36:58

And what about menulibre and alacarte? Do they work, do they not work (and if so on which Xfce versions and distros)?

sixsixfive · 2014-11-21 12:47:11

also there is a menueditor in the application finder just right click on an entry and edit, it does the same as the manual copy&edit solution

Gabriel_M · 2014-11-21 21:31:35

I have Xubuntu 14.10.
With Xfce 4.11.1 and.
I can right-click my menu icon in the panel.
Press properties.
Up pops Applications Menu.
Under menu file press edit menu.
And create, move, or delete menu items.

Jerry3904 · 2014-11-22 00:40:44

I look forward to seeing that, though Alt-F3 to get full Application Finder works fine.

Eightwt · 2014-12-28 14:36:39

Alt-F3 is nice, but since it can't delete entries I find it not too useful. If a delete option was added I could remove old entries easily. The default menu editor is cumbersome at best. I have /home on a separate partition and have upgraded my Mint distro several times over the years, leaving all kinds of orphaned menu entries that are meaningless. If there was a way to rebuild the menu it would be wonderful.

cmcanulty · 2014-12-28 15:09:46

My gripe is it takes forever to delete each item as there are so many and I have to delete most on 15 library machines as I want most things hidden. So each one is select , hide, save , takes forever.

sixsixfive · 2014-12-28 15:11:41

Eightwt wrote:

I have /home on a separate partition and have upgraded my Mint distro several times over the years, leaving all kinds of orphaned menu entries that are meaningless. If there was a way to rebuild the menu it would be wonderful.

so in short, you are too lazy to point thunar to ~/.local/share/applications and delete them manually which takes ~10 seconds?

edit: @cmcanulty

what about writing a script that will excute your wanted commands on all PCs?

see also: http://www.shellhacks.com/en/Running-Co … r-over-SSH

Last edited by sixsixfive (2014-12-28 15:16:21)

cmcanulty · 2014-12-28 15:31:08

good idea but I am afraid beyond my skills

oyvinds · 2015-01-04 19:56:04

sixsixfive wrote:

nothing easier than this, just copy the desktop file from /usr/share/applications to ~/.local/share/applications and edit them
have a look here for all keys: http://standards.freedesktop.org/deskto … 01s05.html

I strongly disagree. What you propose is NOT user-friendly nor is it intuitive.

It would be great if Xfce4 had a much more user-friendly solution for editing menus or if there was/is some easy-to-use third-party menu editing tool (which is quite possible since there is a standard for /applications).

Let me fix that quote from you for you:

sixsixfive wrote:

nothing easier than this for me, just

Please consider how hard it would be for my 68 year old mother to change files in ~/.local/share/applications in order to get a customized menu (not that she would even try to do that anyway, she knows how to start the web browser and that sort of thing). And yes, she actually does use Xfce4 (yes, really).

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#1 2014-02-28 22:21:04

Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#2 2014-03-01 15:07:59

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#3 2014-03-01 16:41:34

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#4 2014-03-01 17:15:50

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#5 2014-03-04 22:27:59

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#6 2014-03-17 17:47:33

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#7 2014-03-23 10:11:30

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#8 2014-03-23 20:34:49

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#9 2014-03-23 20:55:51

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#10 2014-03-24 00:31:22

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#11 2014-05-04 20:19:43

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#12 2014-05-04 23:16:24

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#13 2014-05-06 01:17:44

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#14 2014-11-20 22:46:18

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#15 2014-11-20 23:09:12

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#16 2014-11-20 23:26:46

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#17 2014-11-21 03:36:58

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#18 2014-11-21 12:47:11

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#19 2014-11-21 21:31:35

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#20 2014-11-22 00:40:44

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#21 2014-12-28 14:36:39

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#22 2014-12-28 15:09:46

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#23 2014-12-28 15:11:41

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#24 2014-12-28 15:31:08

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

#25 2015-01-04 19:56:04

Re: Native editor for XFCE application menu?

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